Adding Difficulty Without Adding Cheesiness

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I'm interested in upping the difficulty of my BGII/ToB experience. I tried Tactics, but I have found that rather than making the enemies more difficult solely through improved tactics, intelligence, and stats, the mod makes enemies cheat. Likewise, I find it necessary for myself to use cheesy tactics when facing them. For example, my method of killing Improved Torgal was to have three characters launching a endless array of web/entangle/stinking cloud/slow/grease, while one character launched over 10 cloudkills into the same area. Pretty lame.

So now I'm thinking of uninstalling tactics and starting up again with a new party. What I want to know is... are there any mods that will make the game more difficult, but not in a cheesy way? If not, how would you suggest making the game more difficult for myself?

 

Get Simding0's DEF JAM. It basically reduces the experience you get- so enemies will be comparatively higher level than you. Unfortunately, they're still just as dumb.

http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=content&task=blogcategory&id=110&Itemid=83

 

You might also want to try the Maximum HP Creatures component of G3 Tweaks. It calculates the maximum HP a creature should have based on class, race, level, etc. If the new theoretical total is higher than the current, HPs get adjusted upwards.

You have the choice of applying it to non-party creatures, party creatures, or all creatures.

 

And still it solves nothing: more HP/spells/whatever is not what he is asking for -or me, for that matter. Unfortunately, there isn't a single mod that would do what we are looking for: they all just beef the monsters while keeping them all in the same old places, with same old tactics. Personally, I would be happy if there were a mod that would simply shuffle the monsters to different places / increase their number / change their type. Same could be said about the rewards too.

Of course, you could try "adding" difficulty simply by rushing to meet the monsters instead of luring them out one-by-one, which is pretty common.

 

.....imagine bodhi's lair filled with bloodsucking paladin's from the order of the radiant heart. or running into a family of dragons in the middle of trademeet. Perhaps Irenicus can be replaced by a group of angry vilagers with pictchforks

Shuffling monsters arounds sounds interesting but you'd still be stuck with the same old bosses in the same place doing the same things.

Perhaps the better mod would be one that shuffles the creatures tactics, like the 'Edge Master' in 'Soul Calibur' each time you fight you have no idea how they will act. Variables like weapons/innate abilities/spells would shuffle enabling different battle every time.

**continues daydreaming**

 

Hey, I killed torgal using only single holy smite.

 

@ Pseudospawn

Actually, I was thinking along the lines of adding ~10 fledgling (young) vampires and making them all rush to meet your party at the entrance of their lair. After all, they would be expecting you and ready to defend their mistress.

Trademeet could be swarming with packs of dread wolves and the guards could be all gone. Would make the situation look more serious, at least.

Irenicus definitely would have a party covering his six. Maybe a group of rakshasa or two adamantine golems. Or the final battle could be against both Irenicus and that dragon -would certainly make it more interesting than now.

Temple Ruins could have a score of shadows and greater shade wolves outside, and the inner sanctums could be guarded with skeleton warriors, with one or two wraiths thrown in.

So yeah; that kind of modding would certainly revitalize the game, especially since it isn't that hard to do. It's just a matter of using what the game offers more effectively. If BG2 had a easy-to-use, no-coding-required tool for this, I would do this myself.

 

....would it be possible to make protection from undead only stop the undead from performing physical attacks but not ignore you entirely one scroll and you can kill any undead, way too easy.

@wirhe ...but in the end wont you get bored of/used to the improvements then want more mobs. In fairness if you want more than CLUAConsole them in.
I'd take one constantly changing enemy over an extra half dozen lackeys to add a little more difficulty.

 

@pseudospawn- if you want difficulty, don't use prot from undead. Or prot. magic, for that matter.

I'd like to see lots more adventurer parties. They would require some tasty coding, but it always bugged me that the adventurer's mart exists, despite how few customers it should have.
True, there are a few (Samia springs to mind). But that battle was stupid- dumb enemies and way too cramped to boot. Perhaps replacing some of the "you have been waylaid by enemies..." baddies would be better.

 

@ Pseudospawn

So you prefer "Final Fantasy style" bosses with 10,000 HP, infinite amount of spells, and ability to single-handedly defeat any enemy? That is power-gamers point of view whereas I stress the POV of a roleplayer.

True, and this would make them popular or at least create demand for them.

 

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion from what i said but all i want is an enemy thats different every time i fight them.

Take for example a random boss (ie Illasera):
1st game: short swords, illusion spells, gww, 50%magic resist, immunity to evocation
2nd game: bows, summoning spells, hardiness, 50% phys resist, true seeing
3rd game: halberd, instant dead spells, assassination, 50% elemental resist, hasted
....and so on, and so forth.

By somehow cycing scripts/weapons/spells/inates on the bosses each fight would eb vastly different. And by randomisng lesser monsters throughout the game you get a unqiue experience each time you play.

However i doubt this is fesable, so please disregard everything i have said.

 

How come Illasera would have 50% magic resistance, or the same in physical res? The protagonist had to go through over N quests and again to gain the equipment he has at the beginning of ToB, so Illasera shouldn't have anything better either. Or if she has, it's due of equipment. I think the reasons are more important than just blind beefing, to which, sadly, ToB goes far too often...

 

@CamDawg
If I install max hit thing, all my chars get 2 hits per level(Every level)

 

In sewers the party,which tried to rob you,was quite tough.

 

@nataben1314: why don't you impose some rules on your party?
No summons (a good Cleric wouldn't cast animate dead or gate anyway), only one save slot, no buffing... RP decisions not motivated by XP and goodies from quests? Perhaps you could use weaker NPCs and a PC that would have average stats (most people on the boards seem to enjoy 18s )

 

Tactics and improved battles mode are decent enough. True the enemies cheat, the mages, for example, ALWAYS have a vast amount of protective spells on them to the point of IMMORTALITY, it makes sense though, don't you ever pre-buff before a major battle? Mages do the same now so do not call them cheaters.

Improved Asylum mode makes the asylum FUN! Bodhi now visits you occasionaly to play with you, there are tougher enemies,and there is a adventurer party(neutral) with complete pictures and soundsets, they carry UBER POWERFUL items, SOO POWERFUL ITEMS, you may battle with them to get their treasure but it is a joke. They are SOO POWERFUL that NO party stand a chance to beat them! Try and see! (Though it did not prevent Imoen from pickpocketing a loose ring, it gives +3 wisdom and +1 spell for 6-9th level slots and it is one of the lesser items they have. See the robe of Mystra via item browser and have a little shock...)

 

Hey, I never have 18 in more than three of my stats. Sometimes only in two. And I often only have 10 or 11 Constitution. Do you know what it's like to be a fighter with fewer hit points than Nalia?

 

@Western Paladin: yes I do, my characters usually have less HP than Imoen I'm not that fond of CON either and sometimes I had lowered it down to 7 when I could find an excuse to do so (what are Stoneskins and Ironskins for anyway? If my PC can't cast them then he surely can rely on a low AC, blade barrier or some heavy HtH damage to take care of things)
18s are fine, I heard some people get 19s with the tomes in BG1 (21 in WIS? sure...)

 

Personally I can’t understand why tactics get so much criticism, sure it’s harder but that why you get it right? If you have played the game a couple of times and enjoy exploring the spells, there is nothing IME that isn’t rather easily overcomed.

For example, my method of killing Improved Torgal was to have three characters launching a endless array of web/entangle/stinking cloud/slow/grease, while one character launched over 10 cloudkills into the same area.

That’s sounds kind of boring. Next time you could try sending Nalia in with with mirror image, stoneskin, fireshields, minor globe of invulneability, and protection from fire, when all the monsters have targeted her throw up protection from magical weapons. They will beat themselves bloody on her fireshields. The rest of the party just throw skulltraps, oils of fiery burning, fireballs, etc on Nalia. And that is that. I succeded on the first try and never understood the big deal about improved torgaal.

 

Some bits of tactics are good. Personally, I think the improved guarded compound is fine (it's not really much harder, no blatant cheating really). Many tactics fights force you to use 'cheap' tricks- casting protection from magic scrolls on enemies, for example. And of course there's the infamous hell battle. But I agree that it's not really for RP'ers like myself

Improved asylum mod (not in tactics AFAIK) is probably the worst I have ever played. The riddles are stupid, the new enemies are lame and that adventuring party.... really, I hope that it was a joke mod.