Seeking advice for my next game

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I'm thinking that I'm going to try a run through the game with all characters generated by me. I'm going to entitle this run "Holy orders." It will consist of 4 Paladins (one from each kit and a vanilla), a Lawful Cleric of Lathander, and some other Lawful good character (not a Mage or Sorceror, though). My role playing thesis is that paladins and clerics would chum around together, and my holy PC surrounded himself while in Candlekeep with similarily religious folks.

The question? I need tactics for surviving and succeeding with no magic users or thieves. Tips on the kind of character to put in as the last character would also be welcome.

 

Doing the game without mages is not to hard, most of the times a mage is necessary is when fighting another one. Just equip one paladin with all kinds of magic protection items and let him wait untill the mages combat protections are over.

Without a thief is a bit more tricky, traps is easy taken care of since all of your characters have high HP just let them go right through them and let a cleric heal them. Picking locks without lockpick and knock might be tricky though.

 

You could still have a lawful good mage, if you wanted. Just pick a non-violent focus: Abjurer (protective magic) or an Enchanter (no Evocation spells). Just a thought.

Make sure your warriors are strong enough to bust locks, tough enough to take trap damage, or use your "Detect Traps" spell to avoid or prepare for the damage. Use "Glyph of Warding" for traps, and don't steal things (as that wouldn't be very knightly). That takes care of Rogue skills.

As your last character, you could do a Ranger/Cleric, or even consider a Cleric/Mage if the arcane arts aren't TOTALLY out of the question. A monk would be ideal, if you think about it. Nothing says discipline quite like a monk. They'd get along great together. A wizard slayer might work too, since you have the whole "anti-mage" thing going.

(P.S.: This would be a perfect party in which to try out your Wizard Slayer w/ GM in Darts idea)

Comments?

 

Maybe a Cleric/mage would be a good idea. I wanted all of my characters to be Lawful Good and somewhat religious in focus, so that means no fighters, thieves or pure mages. A monk would be good. I'm thinking that on the one hand the Inquisitor's dispel magic would be great, but on the other hand if anyone else is close, they lose their spell protections, too!

 

You may also want to consider a cleric/thief, then. You can still backstab with clubs and staves, and you'd have another healer. More experience now for locks, chests, and traps. Since he's part cleric, you can still be lawful good. Gnomes are the only class who can do this, IIRC.

I'd still recommend a ranger/cleric or even a druid. Still holy, and you won't miss out on the druid-specific spells.

 

I'm not sure that a cleric/thief can be Lawful good. While I love Druids, one is definitely out for this run, as they are neither Lawful nor good. I'm leaning to the Monk (though that means a lot of bashing and trap running)

 

Then I again recommend the Ranger/Cleric, as they CAN be lawful good. Or go with the monk, I think you'll be happy either way. Another solution: ditch the vanilla Paladin, and do this:

Cavalier (leader)
Inquisitor
Undead Hunter
Priest of Lathander
Monk
Cleric/Ranger

All lawful good, both priest spell arenas are represented, 2 characters with stealth, 1 who can find traps. 2 major spellcasters who can back up as tanks, 3 major tanks who can cast limited spells, one damage machine who doesn't need weapons or armor - which means you don't have to skimp on the good stuff with everyone else. Best of all, all your paladin bases are covered, so you don't need the 4th (vanilla) paladin. With a party like this, arcane magic would merely be gravy on one already kick-ass turkey.

 

Tactics for surviving with only a Paladin, a Cavalier, an Undead Hunter, an Inquisitor and a Cleric?
Oh yeah, you'd be hard pressed to succeed with such a weak party.

 

What I meant was tactics for combat and play that do not involve arcane magic or thief skills-- I've never played without a wizard before. Or without a thief, for that matter.

 

A weak party for inexperienced players. Make sure you get the holy paladin relic weapons. With that dispel magic on them it will aid alot. Cleric can deal with wizards and likewise. If not a wizard/cleric mix then yes, go ranger/cleric. Last character is up to you.

 

the first time i ever played this game was with a party created of fighters only. and i didnt miss the thiefs or spellcasters at all ^_^ (soa only)

so your party should do well enough....
potions composates somewhat for the lack of magick. but thiefs skills cannot be replaced so there are items you will miss...

but its a good idea you have....
but the problems you might encounter with such a party is when you fight enemies that turns invecible such as some liches and that dragon in throne of bhaal (the child of bhaal dragon thing). but i think you will get over those problems (i did).

can a bard be lawful good??? bard and rangers get some thief skills dont they? well im not sure since i almost never played a ranger...and have done a bard once a loong time ago.....bards sucks in my oppinion...

anyway.....get alot of potions to composate for the lack of spellcasters.
perhaps some of your characters will be able to use scrolls (quick-slot)....that would be useful.

anyway....dont go out in combat without invesibility purge ^_^

 

Perhaps like this:

Cavallier - By definition a melee guy. Plus, he's a bit better suited for daemon and dragon hunting. He is also totally immune to poison and largely to acid and fire, so he's a good choice for trigger unit. Thus highest possible dexterity and constitution scores are advised. Decent strength won't hurt either. Intelligence and wisdom shouldn't go below 10 for the sake of illithid fighting and will saves (however they're called in BG). He's *not* the guy to wield Carsomyr. Dual-wielding for this gentleman (Blade of Roses, Celestial Fury, Flail of Ages, Mace of Disruption, Crom Fayr, Replicant, Purifier, Angurvadal... - there's plenty of nicely bonused weaponry to choose from) unless you have a fixed weapon preference and want to score criticals twice as often (single weapon style) and have AC-2 bonus, sword&shield for AC-4 vs missile if you want to make your frontliner practically invulnerable for missile attacks. There's not much two-handed weaponry before late in ToB, so it's not worth it and the Carsomyr guy will need two-handed swords anyway (ToB's mighty two-handed weaponry also serve better than Carsomyr if not fighting against spellcasters). Add draw upon holy might on higher levels and he's going to beat the Slayer (Bhaal's avatar) without losses or with minor scratches.

Inquisitor

He is the Carsomyr guy. With his dispel magic and true sight potential you don't need a mage. Two-handed weapon style, two-handed sword proficiency and Sarevok's sword +2, Lilarcor and then Carsomyr for him. Later in Tob there's a nice spear +6 and halberd +6 with very useful effects and much better than Carsomyr if not fighting casters. As he's not going to dual-wield or use shields, longbow proficiency is advised and max dexterity for both AC and ranged fighting.

Undead Slayer

As the name suggests, mace of disruption is for him. Perhaps dual-wielded with Azuredge and then Runehammer . Apart from those weapons nothing else is particularly useful. Undead folk don't fire missiles, so sword&shield style isn't meant for you. Perhaps single weapon style would be welcome since it doubles your critical ration and you have a weapon instantly slaying them on failed save anyway. Other than that, dual-wielding. If you choose single weapon, equipping bows will be possible (you won't lose time unequipping the offhand weapon or shield first). There's quite a lot of bows and the clerics won't be able to use them, so this seems a good idea.

Vanilla Paladin.

OK, Carsomyr is taken, one or two other guys are dual-wielding already and weapons don't grow on trees. Choose max dex (again) and sword&shield style. You can stop worrying about missiles. It's still possible for you to use missile weapons, so you can either take bows (but the supply of brilliant bows isn't unlimited) or slings (no need to unequip the shield plus sling bullets are blunt weapons and hurt golems etc). If you max out physical stats and cast draw upon holy might this guy is going to be untouchable and more than able to smite.

Cleric.

Well, you can only have Lathander if you start as cleric. If you don't care so much, you could start him as a fighter, get to level 7-9 and be only one level behind a single class cleric in ToB. Profits include: more HP, better thac0, +1/2 attack per round, grandmastery in reach (note that your pallies can only specialise) and extended fighting style posibilities. Clerics also draw upon holy might and have several other useful buffs, so if you plan such a fighter/cleric carefully he might even outperform your paladins without resorting to casting in combat.

The last guy could be a monk. A logical choice if you come from Candlekeep. HE doesn't need weapons or armour, is resistant to magic, moves faster, can hide in shadows (you could always use a scout) and deliver *really* awesome damage on higher levels (comparable to a paladin with Carsomyr).

You could also take a blade bard, but that would mean one NG character in all LG group. He could provide some arcane casting at high casting levels (higher than a mage or sorcerer) up to level six. Halved bard's lore is still enough to identify everything I could think of without identify spell that's still in his disposal. The slots could be used for chromatic orbs that also benefit from blade's high casting level. Dual wielding is absolutely necessary to have some normal number of attacks per round. If you max his intelligence and charisma (primary stats anyway), he makes a nice talker.

 

You won't be able to "pick" all locks even with the girdles of giant strength. Maybe with Crom, but where it is...
Anyway I think str of 25 gives only about 75 per cent chance

 

If you take the Blade bard, you will be able to cast knock, 2nd level transmutation school. Priests are able to detect traps and I don't know if even paladins perhaps aren't, and the only thing you won't ever get is trap disarming. Some traps remain in place once you spring them, some disappear. However, there's no force in the game's universe to keep you from looting that chest if you take the damage.

Ah, one more word about the cleric(s): if you start a cleric as a fighter, he should be elligible for Endurance ability in ToB. It reduces *any* damage by 40% or up to 40%. Magic resistance 50% for 4 rounds doesn't harm either (though I can't remember ever raking that myself ).

 

Look, if you are going extreme(I think you are),
don't take druid. They are *neutral* people. Don't take ranger/cleric. A cleric is *neutral*, only the special priest is good. Don't take bard, they are neutral too.
It depends which one you think is more important, lawful or good. If lawful, take monk, if good, take ranger. Archer or stalker, they are great mage killers.
But if you are really good, you shouldn't dump your sister, your step father's friend, your crazy hanmster friend, a homeless fatherless girl or a good ranger chased by cowled wizard etc. So if you are really lawful good, you shouldn't create six characters.

[ May 26, 2003, 02:47: Message edited by: 14 ]

 

Neat advice, everyone! I just have a few comments for Chevalier. I would NEVER use the Improved mace of Disruption with an Undead Hunter. What a waste of the immunity to undead feature of the class and the Negative Plane Protection of the weapon. I'd give him Daystar or one of the flame blades (Flame tongue does +4 damage to undead, IIRC.) You also recommended dual wielding Azuredge, but unless there's a mod out there, you can't dual wield with a throwable weapon, even if it is also usable in melee.

 

Adding to the lawful good theme, a monk would work. Theives cannot be lawful anything, so even a cleric-theif multi-class would not work. Also, bard would not work, as they have to be part neutral. You'd either have to go for neutral good or lawful neutral, but not lawful good.