PPG Infinity Engine Modlist

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Personally, I've no problems with you. Yes, I disagree with you in several modding matters, and I occassionally pay the attention when I believe you (or anyone) acts in a harmful way to the community (e.g.: acting as if modding was a serious competition; showing no tact and respect to others; forcing "mainstream" solutions etc.). But it's not personal. (Before you start talking about bwl and account blocking etc.: this is SP, plus there is nothing to talk about. You had publicly insulted bwl forum members, refused to follow the rules, and tried to ridicule the rules. So again, there was nothing personal either. Rules are rules.)

Everywhere. Ridiculing others' work won't give you more credibility. Arguments will. But this is not on-topic, so enough of this.

It's up to you what you do with the list. "Sorry, we won't remove your mod", "We don't need permission" and similars texts are ridiculous. No one forces you to do it, no one assumed there is a legal way. It's called common courtesy. To remove a mod from a list if the author wishes so. What is comprehensiveness and helpfullness worth if there is no consent from the author? "Players have right to know that such a mod exists" ... ... ... I already hear the populist text so I'll drop the topic immediately (this was the subject of a different discussion), just do what you like with the modlist. It won't increase your credibility if you list mods against the will of their authors. Especially if it's not even up-to-date:

For example, GreyClan Ep1 has had a BGTrilogy edition for a very long time, yet Modlist uses the old one, I've just noticed. I don't think it's the authors duty to check Modlist all the time if their descriptions are correct, and to inform maintainers. This is a minor issue, but mods may change significantly as well, with newly released readmes and descriptions. If a cut & pasted part of the very first description is used without any updates, it will lead to outdated information. If maintainers can notice Release threads, they can also notice Update threads. And mods aren't updated in every hour, after all.

Back to removing, there can be other reasons too. A mod author might want his/her mod to be removed because (s)he wants to avoid the risk of old descriptions completely (which would mean incorrect information to players). To deny this right from someone, is also against common courtesy. Comprehensiveness -- at any cost?

And this comprehensiveness has problems. Beside outdated descriptions and each mod forced into one category, it's also interesting that Drizzt Saga is not listed there -- yet it has been released long ago (and updated several times), so many public announcements in several forums -- impossible to overlook. I've seen at least one non-weidu listed on modlist, so this shouldn't be the reason.

I'm unable to imagine why it's so difficult and impossible to add e.g. IA to more categories. Your example about quests adding items was not relevant, I clarified it in my previous post: quest mods usually add new items, but e.g. IA specifically upgrades and adds items, mostly independently of the quests. As basically autonomous parts. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anyone, just a few clicks, few seconds -- yet it seems to be such a BIG problem. I ask: why?

Please don't pretend you're not involved in this or can't inform those who are. You're in active contact with people like JC or Icelus, even you often chat with them on irc channels directly. So if you had wanted, you would write two sentences and a link to any of them, "Hey XY, they have this proposal here, see this".

But for some reason, you (and CamDawg too) are always helpful to say "come, you are invited, you are free to tell it there / to them", but then consider/implement nothing from the major incoming suggestions (unless it's a "sword hilt too blue"-like report), usually.

 

Why am I being dragged into this?

 

Okay, okay, I'm so sorry we tried to list mods. Please, no more!

[ January 10, 2007, 09:15: Message edited by: SimDing0 ]

 

I tried to point out a more general problem (of Modlist, and of modder approach and attitudes), so not just IA-related, but I shouldn't have brought up personal aspects so explicitly (even if they are dominant) on SP's gaming forum. You're right, I will not burden this great and versatile place with such problems. Hopefully, the modders involved will realise that competition and rivalry is not the way to go.

[ January 11, 2007, 00:58: Message edited by: Baronius ]

 

I noticed that Improved Anvil is still listed as an item-mod in the wrong category and with the wrong description in PPG modlist, despite all my previous clarifications. It seems that any third party person has the permission to submit anyone else's mod in this modlist in a wrong category and even when the main author sends clarifications the maintainers of the list do not care to fix it at all.

I don't repeat this anymore in this thread, but it's worth noting that PPG modlist is not what it claims to be (i.e. a comprehensive modlist with correct information for players). It's important that experienced players and modders do not recommend this modlist to newbies/players as a source of information. (It's not just about IA. The list contains several other problems which noone seems to be willing to fix.)

[ May 22, 2007, 09:00: Message edited by: Sikret ]

 

Baldurdash-WeiDU is not in the unofficial fixpacks section (unlike the non-weidu Baldurdash, G3 Fixpack and SP Fixpacks). So mods that you don't like are either added to wrong category (Improved Anvil still in items/stores mods section), or even simply don't add them at all (Baldurdash-WeiDU). Comprehensive...

Note: I wouldn't normally post it here, but since both Tortured Souls and Never Ending Journey have an entry in SP's large mods section, and they both require BD-WeiDU, the information might be beneficial for SP readers who are less experienced in the world of mods. I know at least one player who wanted to play TS and didn't know that BD-WeiDU existed at all (confused it with Baldurdash and BG2 Fixpack etc.), so I hope this information will prevent such situations from repeating: Baldurdash-WeiDU (which isn't identical to Baldurdash!) is an existing mod, it can be found on BWL and Dragon's Hoard!

 

The modlist has some sort of submission system, I think, so you should be able to do it yourself. (BD-WeiDU, that is, not IA in 50 different categories, please. ) If you've tried that, I can pass on the message.

I still don't know what all this "mods you don't like" business is about.

It'd be useful if you could post stuff like this on PPG in future, since then the people involved are more likely to see it, but thanks for pointing this out.

 

Well, just a neutral observer's 2 cents on the placement of Improved Anvil on this list, but if adding a mod to more than 1 category is a challenge, I'd recommend that IA be listed in the tactical section rather than item section.

Your average player looking for a "neato item mod" is going to get a whole lot more than they bargained for with Improved Anvil. Those swell items also happen to be intermingled with the toughest BG2 battles anywhere in existence!!!!! So, someone who's not ALSO up for extreme tactics and added difficulty, is going to find the new items in Improved Anvil somewhat less than useful, because, frankly, they're never going to last to acquire them!

Seems like a bit of basic logic to me. As intelligent as I know many of you modders must be, it seems like your ability to interact productively with certain other modders is non-existent. Kind of reminds me of squabbles I used to have with my kid sister when we were growing up, just with bigger words.

For as substantial as the IA mod is, I’d think that it’s reasonable for something to be worked out here. We’re not talking about a mod that merely adds 5 new items to the game, afterall. If it can’t be added to all appropriate categories, and there is no flexibility to remove it completely, let’s then instead find the BEST category for it, why don’t we. My vote is for tactical.

As an aside… perhaps most of you modders just aren’t married yet. This is the basic give and take that is part of any marriage (at least, any marriage that hopes to go the distance). Though, I know many, many unmarried folks who seem to understand these concepts just fine.

 

Look, I really don't know why this is my fault. Yes, I think IA should be under Tactical Mods too. No, I can't do it, and neither can anyone reading this thread. I don't know why I'm suddenly unable to interact productively with anyone. Can someone else sort this out; I just want to go and lie down and die somewhere.

 

99% of people in IE modding sites know it very well that you're somewhat a key modder at PPG, who can quickly get in touch with JC, icelus and others involved in ModList. Often in daily chat, but in PMs anyway. The time you've spent phrasing your total posts in this topic could've been enough to inform any PPG modlist admin or even just to send them the link to a post here. All in all, it's pointless to pretend you can't do anything related to the issue. It would be minutes for you. So let's not tire ourselves, please.

 

Never mind.

[ June 30, 2007, 23:27: Message edited by: SimDing0 ]

 

SimDing0, as this thread seems to be getting a little too personal, I sent you a PM.