Need Help Creating the "Improved" Ultimate Party

Remove all ads!

I want to pull out all the stops and play through BG:TOB with a fully created party, no NPC's (sorry romance fans, but I've heard all the banter and done all the romances - they just aren't fun the nth time), while utilizing as many spells and items as I possibly can within a single game. That means every type of spell, and every type of weapon. I want to beat the game knowing there wasn't some cool strength or item I had to leave out (druid spells & high level abilities, for example). To finish the game with that 'lean back with your hands behind your head saying "aaaaaaaah" ' feeling of total satisfaction I just haven't had yet.

I've used the patch that allows my created characters to return to the Copper Coronet or stay put when kicked out, so I can do NPC quests and kick them out right after. Here's the party I have in mind:

Elf Sorcerer (for 19 dex)
Half-Orc or Dwarf Fighter/Cleric (can I reach all high level abilities with a multi?)
Human Inquisitor (for Crom, Dispel & TS; might be my hero PC)
Half-elf Blade (still get exp. for learning scrolls, plus bard spells & equipment)
Human or Half-elf Avenger (great extra spells, cool high-level abilities)
Human Kensai/Theif (or just a straight up assassin...I've recently discovered the joys of backstabbing)

Any input would be great. I've started and restarted the game so many times I could scream. I just can't seem to get the right balance of tanks with magic with rogueing. Are 2 tanks enough? I'd take a monk, but probably my favorite aspect of RPG's is digging up new toys to split skulls with, and there's no need for weapons or armor with a monk. I love barbarians too but they just don't seem to fit this build.

Suggestions for good mods would be appreciated too. Done the Darkest Day (yuck). Thinking about Tortured souls, Ascension, weapon packs. Help me make the definitive BG2 game!

Edit: When I say "improved," I mean more than just a power party. I want to pack in as many cool aspects of the game as possible (without cheating of course).

[ April 02, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

I would suggest my own party, and here is the thread about it.
I'd suggest your paladin to wield Carsomyr not Crom Faeyr.
And i think a blade i useless, get a skald and see how it kicks ass!
Khelben calms down

 

I meant Carsomyr - woops. Hey they both start with 'C' and sound like cough medicine...easy to confuse (he he).

I like your party Khelben, but my focus is powergaming in a broader sense. I don't want to just kick ass, I want to excel in as many aspects of the game as I possibly can. I don't want to exclude any items or abilities that are really powerful, yet unique to certain character types.

Can multi-classes get high enough in experience to gain the best high-level abilities? How much of a handicap is the experience spread for them?

And I think I may try the Skald after all.

 

Yep... multiclass characters can choose high level abilities from both classes when they reach 3,000,000 total experience (so Fighter/thief with 1,500,000 experience in both classes will get high level ability next time he levels up)

Ascension is a good mod. If you want more battles, try also Weimer's Tactics mod http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/bgate/

 

Tell you what...

Change Druid-avenger with druid shapeshifter. Then download shapeshifter rebalanced mod and install it.
That way you have an aditional tank when you need it and a full druid without those mage tricks.
A shapeshifter in greater werewolf form is better than Korgan(+plenty of resistances) so dont worry about its weakness.

 

Ooooooh...Where can I find that mod and what does it change exactly?

How far behind single-class characters are multi-classes generally? Is it enough that they are a burden on the party? When I played through the first time, I thought Aerie and Jahiera were always a little lacking, but then again that may just be their crappy stats talking.

 

Its in Easy-of-use mod. When installing just chose to ask you about each mod specificaly and install the ones you like.
Here's the link: Easy-of-use


About multiclass...
In some cases multiclasses are almost equal to single classes and better becouse you have 2 classes in 1 character. Jan for instance. He's a thief as good as you'll ever need in Soa and ToB + he is a very decent mage. He's even my main mage.
Kensai/thief would work very good as well as almost any non-armor kensai mixture.

 

Ok - I've downloaded EOU, and installed it. It doesn't say what it changes on the Shapeshifter, though. Do you know?

 

It does say that...
The readme for that fix is in the \ease\ folder or in the folder which does the shapeshifter rebalancing inside the \ease\ folder.


Here's the text from the README:

Shapeshifter Rebalancing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This makes Shapeshifters less of a joke. You might even be tempted to have
Cernd in your party now. Well, let's not go overboard. Anyway, this fixes
the bug where the Shapeshifter's paws could be dispelled and then any
weapon could be put in their place. That exploit essentially gave you 2
extra attacks with whatever you wanted, plus all the werewolf powers.

Shapeshifter abilities now create "symbolic paws". When you wield one you
turn into a Werewolf, when you remove it you're human again. No possible
exploits, and you may choose whether to put the paw in your on-hand or
off-hand. Since your off-hand THAC0 as a pure druid is, shall we say,
sub-optimal, I recommend the on-hand.

This also fixes a "bug" where attributes of the CRE file for "PC
polymorphed into a Werewolf" were not actually given to the PC by the
Polymorph opcode. Normal Werewolf:

You Were Supposed To Get / You Actually Got
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Base Magic Res 20% / Magic Res *LOCKED AT* 20%
Immunity to Normal Weapons / Nothing
Paw = 1d12 slashing / Paw = 1d6 piercing

For the Greater Werewolf ...

You Were Supposed To Get / You Actually Got
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THAC0 6 / Nothing
Saves 1/1/1/2/1 / Nothing
Base Elemental Res 50% / Elemental Res *LOCKED AT* 50%
Base Magic Res 40% / Magic Res *LOCKED AT* 40%
Immunity to Normal Weapons / Nothing
Paw = +3 Weapon / Paw = +2 Weapon
Paw = 2d8 slashing / Paw = 1d6 piercing
Regeneration 3 HP / second / Nothing

To see this for yourself, check out werewodr.cre, weregrdr.cre, brbrp.itm,
etc.

The "Rebalancing" gives a Greater Werewolf Shapeshifter the +7 HP per Level
due to a fighter with 25 CON (before you just got +2). Most importantly,
Shapeshifters may now cast spells while in Wolf form. Hey, they're supposed
to have dedicated their lives to controlling lycanthropy. I'm sure a little
fur won't mess up their communion with nature. Yuan Ti, Githyanki,
Sahuagin, they can all cast spells. Why not wolfmen?

In addition, the Druid spell choices were a bit weak in some areas, so some
Priest-only spells were made Priest-Druid: Sanctuary (sylvan sanctuaries
abound), Chant (they got Bless, why not Chant?), Zone of Sweet Air (sounds
nature-y to me!), Glyph of Warding (no excuse, but they need a damaging
spell here that isn't Call Lightning), Righteous Magic (listen to Jaheira
for a while and tell me she's not Righteous ... more importantly, if
they're going to tank around they need some extra help).

Finally, 99% of all sixth-level druid spell slots go to "Summon Fire
Elemental". You can get a 24 hit dice monster with +4 claws that lasts for
hours with that spell. It's so much better than the 7th level "Summon Earth
Elemental" that it isn't funny. The other 6th-level summons just don't come
close. To give you some actual choices, "Conjure Animals" has been changed
to summon two 20 HD Greater Bearweres (they're like Greater Wolfweres).
However, the duration remains 4 turns. Do you want Fire Elementals forever,
or Mighty Big Tanks for a short time? You decide.

By the way, I initially coded up a version of the Shapeshifter paws that
would not be useable even by Thieves with UAI (this is the intended spirit
of the power). However, I'm not the police, so I removed it. If you want to
cheat, go for it.

 

Thanks Taza you rock. I got EOU from a friend and he didn't send along the readme, so thanks! I just went to the WeiDU site and read the whole thing, so I'm now sold on the shapeshifter now for sure. Went ahead and got a few other fixpacks too, so I should be all set soon. After some playing around, here's what I have:

Human Inquisitor (protagonist, for cool paladin SH quests)
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric
Elven Fighter/Theif (go go Katanas & Scimitars)
Human Shapeshifter (improved)
Human Skald
Elven Sorcerer

I guess it doesn't really matter who my protagonist is, because now I can get any and all strongholds. Man this is gonna rock.

Any comments on this setup? Any last mod recommendations? Anyone? Beuller?

 

Yup dmc is pretty right about fighter/cleric. Its really not that powerful combo.
The best way to do it is take a human ranger with max str, dex, con, wis and have him single class until lvl9, 12 or 15 (your choice) and then dual him to cleric.
This combo is truly powerful. It has ALL priest spells (druid and cleric ones) it can effectively dual-wield weapons like Crom Faeyr and any other kick-ass weapon.


Good combination

 

And if you dual him from stalker, he'll get backstab (and 25 strength from CF in offhand )

BTW, you have bard and sorcerer, so you will miss out some spells.

 

Yeah, I realize that. At this point, I'm thinking of ditching the bard altogether. I just don't find them all that useful, to be honest. Too weak in all his areas. I'd rather replace him with a mage/thief so I can cast 7-8-9 level spells. I figure once I get 'use any item' high level ability, I can use the bard items anyway. Other than high lore, there's no real point to him IMO. There's only a few people in the game worth pickpocketing anyway, and there are potions for that. Here's where I'm at now:

Human Inquisitor
Elven Sorcerer
Elven or Gnomish Mage/Thief
Half-Elven cleric ranger (though the dual option may be interesting to try...)
Pure Kensai (no race picked yet)
Shapeshifter (no race picked yet)

So the way I see it, I have 2 tanks, 1 semi-tank/damage machine (Kensai), 2 spellcasters allowing all spells, 2 priests allowing every priest spell, a thief who can cast shadow door, improved invis., etc, and a paladin for Carsomyr etc. Like I said, the only thing I lack are Bard items which my theif can use later, and the idea of bard song isn't appealing to me any more (disabling one character entirely just for a slight bonus to my already powerful characters? no thanks...).

With the cleric/ranger...If I dual him from a Stalker, will he be restricted to leather armor? And if not, can he still backstab while wearing plate?

 

AFAIK, elven or gnomish mage/thiefs can't cast 7-8-9 level spells becaues they still gain experience from their thief class.

 

What are you talking about Khelben? Sure they can. I started my own Gnomish mage/thief the first time I played through TOB (expansion section only) and was able to cast those levels. If it's a question of experience, I'll have more than enough mods installed to get me up there.

Am I confused about what you mean?

 

Useless? USELESS?! You're calling one of the most powerful kits in the whole game useless!!! Nothing personal Khleben, but the Blade is one of the most powerful classes in the game, and I won't be accepting anything against them! A Skald is absolutely no match for a Blade... though since you're carrying along a whole party, Khelben's right - the Skald is the better choice. Haer Dalis, in particular, is the strongest hirable NPC in the game when used as how a Blade should be used... as a power character. The Blade isn't weak in all respects, he's just mediocre and above average/superior in ALMOST all respects. In the others, he's the ace of the trade. Though many fail to see this, this versatility is what actually makes the Blade so powerful. When used well and coordinated wisely, I'll be laughing the improved Mel and the Five and even the Solaufein Mod's Unholy eclipse fights away while "power parties" are having the time of their lives going through them.
I can cook up a whole book about how powerful Blades can be.
Anyhow, Death Rabbit, the reason you can do that is because of the recent mod. I also couldn't do that with my version.
Dualed Stalker-Cleric will still be restricted from plate and metal armour, and though you can still get the 3 weapon proficiencies to dual weapons and two to other weapons, the idea of using clubs for backstab doesn't appeal much to me much. Nevertheless, they're effective.

[ April 10, 2003, 11:54: Message edited by: Infarateo Gantul ]

 

Please, by all means - COOK! I've heard so many people rave about bards - "Bards Rule!!!" "I chose 3 bards and did the whole game" or whatever. I still fail to see them as anything but a liability. Call me cooky, I've just never had a good experience with them, but I'm totally willing to believe that I just don't know how to play them.

Please - convince me - anybody. I don't get bards. The way I see it:
-The only thief ability they have is the most useless one.
-Their spellcasting can't go beyond level 6, so bye-bye to really powerful stuff.
-Bard song effectively disables the bard, yet doesn't benefit the party all that much (yes, even the Skald song)
-Improves thaco and has proficiencies as a thief, so he sucks big dogs in melee, and I suppose he's fair as a ranged spellcaster. (That said - why not a mage/theif multi or dual?)

Maybe I should start a new thread for this (and I might), but here's my new debate:

Bard vs. Thief/Mage? An objective analisys. Please be seated. You may begin now.

 

Hey Death Rabbit, your party is looking pretty good. Believe me, I'm taking notes . To do your backstabbing consider a Kensai/Thief. Dual from Kensai at level 15 and he can still reach level 38 Thief, so he will be the only thief you need. Backstab will be second only to Assasin, and he will be extremely versatile: Use Any Item, Traps, Grand Mastery, Kensai bonuses, etc. Grandmastery in Two-Handed Swords, Specialize in Staffs and Two-Handed Weapons. With Ring of Gaxx, Human Flesh +5, Carsomyr, and a few more items (maybe Cloak of Balduran) your magic resistance will be over 100%. Use Carsomyr normally, backstab with Staff of the Ram. That's the plan for my PC right now.

You know about the Archer(12)/Cleric combo, so with the improved Shapeshifter your priest spellcasting will be awesome. Sorcerer or wild mage (I'm a risktaker) for solid mage action. I'm also a big fan of dual-classing over multiclassing. Well, here's my ideal party:

Kensai(15)/Thief
Archer/Cleric
Elven Sorcerer or Wild Mage
Thief(9)/Conjurer
Half Orc Berserker
Half Orc Kensai

One true tank, two damage-specialists, all-purpose priest, two magic-users.

 

That works! Good luck with that. Just a couple things...

"Thief(9)/Conjurer" ? I didn't think you could select a mage school when dual-classing...or is that fixed with Ease-of-Use?

I may go with a Dwarf for the Berserker (don't want to leave out the Dwarven Thrower war hammer...) plus it won't look like I have an all-human party, which would bug me after a while. (I'm wierd like that). With your setup though, you leave out all druid only items and high level abilities. Do you mind? Or are you taking a bit different strategy?