Maximum character stats without cheating

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This has grown out of a topic in the BG1 forum. The question is: if you play through BG, TotSC, SoA and ToB, what are the maximum stats that you can get?

The maximums after BG1 / TotSC are:
Strength: 19 (Manual of Gainful Exercise)
Dexterity: 20 (elf or halfling, Manual of Quickness of Action)
Constitution: 20 (dwarf, Manual of Bodily Health)
Intelligence: 20 (gnome, Tome of Clear Thought)
Wisdom: 21 (3 x Tome of Understanding)
Charisma: 19 (Tome of Leadership and Influence)

After SoA, we get:
Strength: 21 (evil path in Hell)
Dexterity: 20 (elf or halfling, 19 if good path taken in Hell)
Constitution: 20 (dwarf)
Intelligence: 20 (gnome)
Wisdom: 22 (good path in Hell)
Charisma: 20 (good path in Hell)

You need to take one point away from one of these stats as a penalty applied in Spellhold.

SoA item upgrades (including bonus pack):
Strength: 25 (Crom Faeyr) OR +1 (Harmonium Halberd)
Wisdom: +1 (Hrothgar's Axe)
Charisma: +8 (Blade Of Roses, Nymph Cloak, Helm of Glory, Hrothgar's Axe, Plate Of Balduran)
Note: Sensate Amulet gives +2 CHA, but is only usable by clerics who can't use Blade of Roses, etc.

After TOB we get:
Strength: 22 (evil path in SoA, Machine of LtM)
Dexterity: 21 (elf or halfling, Machine of LtM, 20 if good path taken in SoA)
Constitution: 21 (dwarf, Machine of Ltm)
Intelligence: 21 (gnome, Machine of Ltm)
Wisdom: 23 (good path in SoA, Machine of Ltm)
Charisma: 21 (good path in SoA, Machine of Ltm)

Item bonuses:
Strength: +1 (Cleric's level 25 holy symbol)
Dexterity: +2 (Shuruppak's Plate, Malla's Soul Stone)
Constitution: +2 (Axe of the Unyielding +5, Obsidian Ioun Stone OR Malla's Soul Stone)
Intelligence: +1 (Golden Ioun Stone)
Wisdom: +1 (Silver Ioun Stone)

Have I missed anything out?

If we assume for argument's sake that all stats are equal, the maximum item bonuses you can get at the end of ToB are:
Strength: 25 (Crom Faeyr, dual wielded)
Dexterity: +2 (Shuruppak's Plate, Malla's Soul Stone)
Constitution: +1 (Malla's Soul Stone)
Charisma: +5 (Nymph Cloak, Blade of Roses, dual wielded)

Can anybody see a better combination?

What's the best total that you can come up with? The character could not be either a dwarf, because they have a maximum base charisma of 16 or a half-orc because you cannot take one through BG1. Consider maximizing stat bonuses as well as the stats themselves.

How's about the following neutral dual class human fighter / cleric:
Strength: 25 (Crom Faeyr)
Dexterity: 21 (Shuruppak's Plate, Malla's Soul Stone, -1 penalty due to good path in Hell)
Constitution: 21 (Malla's Soul Stone)
Intelligence: 19 (-1 penalty taken in Spellhold)
Wisdom: 23 (good path in Hell)
Charisma: 25 (good path in Hell, Sensate Amulet, Nymph Cloak)

A veritable god!

 

I was under the impression that only one of the stats could be raised (you have to choose) by the machine and not all of them. This means that your character wouldn't have all stats raised by 1 in TOB.

 

Nope, you can take all the upgrades yourself if you like.

 

Actually, you CAN take a half-orc through bg1 if you install a BG1 converter like BG1Tutu or BG Trilogy that convert BG1 to the BG2 engine. At the moment I'm taking a Half_orc Barbarian through BG1 and it's great fun...

 

These best stats that I've had would be with my Cavalier, without cheating.

At the start it was.
str 18
dex 12
con 18
wis 13
int 14
cha 17

When I got to SoA
str 19
dex 13
con 19
wis 16 - good path in hell
int 15
cha 18 - good path in hell

At ToB it was
str 20
dex 20
con 20
wis 17
int 16
cha 19
Extra +1 for all stats after WK.
fixed the low dex with the gauntlets.

All this was without the Items by the end of ToB with them it looked like this

str 25 - Crom
dex 22 - BG1 tome, Machine of LtM and Shurrupaks plate (or however it's spelled)
con 22 - BG1 tome, LtM, Axe of unyeilding + Obsidian Ioun stone.
wis 17
int 16
cha 22 - Plate of Baulduran, Nymph Cloak.
(note I do not wear the Plate of Balduran/Shurrapaks plate at the same times I wear the former when I'm shopping and the latter only when I know there will be a fight coming.
With all the penalty's applied it's

str 25
dex 21 -1 penalty in hell (wearing Shurrapaks plate)
con 22
wis 16 -1 penalty in spellhold
int 16
cha 22 (wearing plate of Baulduran)

With these stats my Cavalier was far from the stereotypical "big muscles, stupid orc like brain type"

I did not cheat in any way to get these stat's I just spent about five minutes rolling and I just got lucky eventually.

I've included both Shurraupaks plate and Plate of Baulduran as they are used for different situations and the character can have one without the other and not lose any advantages in either fighting or shoping scenarios.

[ December 15, 2003, 12:22: Message edited by: casey ]

 

As for the strength enhancement from the evil path in the hell trials, I've always gotten a +3 bonus (+1 actual stat increase, +2 "magical" enhancement). Anyone else get this after they install the patch and everything?

 

@Casey,

Something doesn't quite add up:

You started BG1 with CON 18. Raised to 19 (presuming from the Tome of Bodily Health) but by the end of SoA, you had CON 20, with no explanation of how. By the time you finished ToB, you had CON 23, part of which was achieved using Malla's Soul Stone (something a cavalier cannot use due to alignment). That aside if you started at 18 and ended with 23, you're still gained a point somewhere that isn't explained (23-18=5; you only account for 4).

Curious - are you dual-wielding? You show STR 25 from Crom Faeyr and CON 23 (partially achieved w/ Axe of Unyielding). Not quite the image most have of the "classical knight in shining armor" as most used swords, but it's your character. Outfit him as you see fit.

Speaking of outfitting, I'd also be curious to know how you're wearing 2 sets of plate mail (Shuruppak's Plate and Plate of Balduran).

 

@Casey
Also, how does a cavalier get Malla's Soul Stone? It's usable by neutral and evil characters only.

 

Chris that was a mistake I didn't know about Malla's soul stone it was a hypothetical setup but I have played a Cavalier with those same base stats and if he could use it he would have those item's but alas it is not possible so alternatively I would give him the Obsidian Ioun stone that I KNOW he can wear

Spelladona that was a mistake I made in my haste to finish it in time as I was in a hurry and did not have time to be careful and I will fix that now. I use both armours in different situations, since one makes you better in combat and the other makes you more charismatic so you get better prices they are used for completly different situations exclusivley the other stat's that are relavant to combat I never change so in your opinion this may or may not be justifiable.

And as for a Paladin using only swords? would it not make sense for a Paladin been the warrior he/she is to be as proficient in as many weapons as possible? there are some obscure stories I know of on the internet about a Cavalier named Onyx that is a lawful Paladin but he is far from the "Black and White veiw" type of Paladin that only sees good and evil and is not unlike other Paladin's blind to the real threats and evil's I can PM you the link's if you'd like.

 

I think that you can get the bonus from Machine of LtM evry time you play with a imported character. So, as far as I am concerned, if you have patience, you can hit the big 25 in all.

 

But that could be considered cheating as everytime you import the same character the xp and levels come with it, but I think there is an exception to this in multi player not sure though. Who would have the patience to do that? it would be long tedious and boring, if I decide to waste time on games I want to at least have fun and not get bored. Not to mention if you wanted to do this you could edit it with SK whuch does the same thing and is instant

 

Well, on the first Baldur's Gate I remember getting the following stats:
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Const: 18
Wis: 16
Int: 10
Cha: 17

After BG1...:
Str: 23
Dex: 22
Const: 22
Wis: 18
Int: 11
Cha: 18

Sorry, I passed the first BG1, numerous of times ...

 

@Casey,

I figured it was a math moment, but wasn't sure (btw, dex is off by one -- I think you're still figuring in Malla's Soul Stone).

As for paladins being proficient in as many weapons as possible -- I disagree with that. Paladins learn to become one with their weapon (typically a two-handed sword) and while they are certainly exposed to other weapons and styles of fighting associated with those weapons, and may even practice those weapons and styles, they dedicate a vast amount of their training to the two-handed sword. Why is it you think that Carsomyr is only usable by paladins? They are the only group with the strength, faith, and conviction to wield such a powerful weapon. Regarding the links about Onyx, I would be interested in those. It might shine a different light into the long-accepted ideas of what a paladin is like (or supposed to be like).

 

Does Shurupaks plate increas dex by one or two? I cant seem to remember

 

It only increases DEX by 1.

Thanks for the link too. I'll check it out.