POLL: The BG Canon PC Poll

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@olimikrig:
It's been established before that there already is more than one human Bhaalspawn. Imoen, Sarevok, Balthazar (30th level monk), Viekang (10th level thief), and I'm sure there are others that I can't think of right now. Bhaal went after at least one of each race (though I don't remember a half-elf or dwarf showing up).

 

is pretty much all I can say

 

1) Sex,

50/50 I'd say. Any gender could be child of Bhaal really.

2) Race

Human, because they seem to be more numerous so chances are there would be more human bhaalspawn.

3) Class

Definatly sorcerer. Just read the description "Blood of dragons or gods flows through their veins..."

4) Alignment

Chaotic Evil - He is a child of god of murder

5) Endgame choice?

Probably become a god.

 

Sex: Evidently the game was marketed towards a predominantly male audience, but storywise I don't think it makes much difference.

Race: Human. The long-lived races make little or no sense within the given time frame.

Class: Dunno. Don't really buy the "children of Bhaal need magic" argument, though. What's Sarevok then, chopped liver? Bhaal himself was an assassin while mortal, I believe, so a fighter/thief seems thematically appropriate. It's just that magic is so common in BG2/TOB that any class without it seems mundane and uninteresting by association, I suppose. If there weren't inherent problems with game balance I'd suggest that the PC should develop greater salient powers as the story chugs along, but oh well.

Alignment: Seems like the game encourages you to be good-aligned, which I guess is actually true of AD&D in general. All of the neutral/good alignments are perfectly consistent (except maybe CN, which is pidgeonholed as the 'madman alignment' in 2E).

Endgame: Probably the 'become a mortal' ending is the most suggestive, but I liked the 'become a good power' ending more, personally.

 

Sex:It looks like male to me.

Race:Human or half-elf or half-orc I suppose due to life-span.

Class:Start as a fighter or non-caster clas then dual into mage due to Gorion's teachings.

Alignment:Chaotic good, I think.

Endgame:Mortal.

 

IMHO, the only races possible are Human, Half-Elf, Half-Orc and Halfling. All others don't fit the time frame of this game.

 

Sex: Most people are saying sex could be either way, but honestly I think it should be Male. My reasoning behind it, is yes in the game they're required to maintain a politically correct stand point, but fact is the Males tend to have a stronger foothold in society and in general be the stronger sex. This matters because of the class I choose.

Race: Human. I'm certain that humans were bhaals primary target when looking at progeny. Humans are abundant and creative. They have the strongest empires in the realms and the greater number of his followers are human.

Class: Fighter. The bread and butter good's rise over evil world is always led by a fighter. The reason is simple. Fighters derive their strength solely from their ability as a person, their ability to lead and their skill with everything tangible. This is easily related to any ordinary person, as everyone can weild a sword with some proficiency while not too many have the option of wielding magic the same way. Fighters also enter the 'thick of it'. They are the class that fears little and never stands back. The fact that they are the men of action leads to the fact that they are the best choice for what's needed. Although Gorion is a mage and has had great influence on Charname, charname chooses his own path because he is a different person.

Alignment: Chaotic for sure. With the blood of Bhaal himself running in your veins, and the dreams that always disturb your sleep, there is no way that you can be lawful or neutral. Choosing between Chaotic Good/Neutral/Evil is difficult. You have been raisedin a 'Good' environment your entire life, but have definately had some neutral/evil influences. IMHO alignment should be Chaotic Good because the Neutral/Evil influences have been severly limited by the methods of Gorions raising you. Bhaals blood and the dreams could easily have enough effect on a person to make them Neutral/Evil though, which is why I've decided that the only part of the alignment we can determine for certain is charname is Chaotic by nature.

End Game: Charname has had this life thrust upon him and everything he's ever loved has been ruined by it. Becoming the Lord of Murder gives you no option to be a 'Good God', because you retain Bhaals title. While the option of being an evil god fits perfectly for someone who is Evil, (not neutral, because that would mean confrontation with Cyric, and neutral characters tend to avoid creating conflicts or 'rifts in the balance'), I believe the best choice is to be mortal. A CG character could not take on the role as Lord of Murder, because it is against his nature and a neutral character has no need of taking a position of power in the first place, especially if there is going to be trouble with an older presence of equal/greater power. Even an Evil character might get tired of the same old thing and wish to just relax. So the best choice is Mortal.

 

For sex...Storyline wise no...it doesn't make too much of a difference, but I see him as being male. The "protective" older brother who rushes to spellhold to save his freightened sister.

Race: Half Elf makes the most sense to me. I doubt Gorion would have had an easy time passing a half orc into candlekeep.

Class: Partly why I chose half elf, charname is the most powerful of the Bhaalspawn by Canon. Even so, I don't belive he would win a fight going toe to toe with Serevok, Abizigal or a couple of the others. Nonetheless, I think he should be able to hold his own in a fight while also being able to draw on other abilities. Thusly, essentially being able to beat Serevok by outsmarting him. By the time the final battle rages, Serevok might just be ticked off enough not to be able to think clearly. But I digress...with all the lore available in Candlekeep I'd lean toward fighter/mage or even fighter/mage/thief.

Alignment: I say neutral good. Good because it makes sense for the story and gorion's influence. Even if he were evil, by the end of BG1 he averts war and saves thousands of lives...which is certainly a good deed. The game steers charname toward the good path, I think. There are references to charname feeling stifled in candlekeep but that might stem toward the monk's need for law and order. And so help me, when I think of Chaotic Good, I can only think of Coran and Minsc...charname would have to be more "together" than that.

5. He stays Mortal. As someone above me mentioned, were he to ascend, he would be required to be an evil diety as that of murder. Ascension would simply not be an option for a good aligned character.

This is also the character I played when I went through BG1 and BG2 as a whole for the first time.

And since it's along the same lines...how about charname's stats? Here's what I think they would be for the NG Fighter/Mage I just described.

Assuming he's on par with Serevok, he'd have 95 total points on rolling.
Strength 14 Again above average, but I think his strength even as a fighter would pale in comparison to some of the other Bhaalspawn.

Dexterity 17 Given his elfish decent and his need for out "surviving" things...I think high dex would be a must.

Constitution: I don't have much of a reason behind this other than using Serevok as my model and giving him above average con and yet less than the 18 serevok has...I'd say this would be on par with strength and be about 14.

Int: 18 He was raised in Candlekeep and had plenty to study and they do say that genius are often lackadasical when it comes to classes.

Wisdom 11: He spent all those years locked up in Candlekeep and probably didn't experience much until he went on the BG journies. And I'd image that given what he knew about his ward, Gorion would have been very careful as to what information he would have given the boy. This can't be too high.

Charisma 16 (maybe 17) of all the people charname meets on his journey he's able to get them all to follow him unquestionably. He would unquestionably be a marvelous leader. How else would he convince a group of 6 people to kill dragons.

That gives charname a total score of 90 or 91 if you go with 17 for charisma, giving him more than Imoen's 87 and Serevok's 95, which I think is about right.

 

1) Male (though I don't waste time playing romances)

2) Elf - I like Drow.

3) Swashbuckler - gets pretty powerful

4) Neutral Evil - Don't care about no one

5) Remained mortal - Just wanted to be left alone.

 

@Mulsis

I see charname as being capable of going toe to toe with all the bhaalspawn, making it clear why he is the most powerful and why the others need armies where as charname could go alone through the canon or bring along 1-5 companions and still handle everything.

Strength would be 18/8x. He's strong and he proves it in every battle.

Dex would be higher, but not as good as a rogues, 16.

Con - he can run around buck naked in candlekeep and never get sick, plus through conditioning he is definately healthier than most, 18.

Int - Despite the books at his disposal, intelligence isn't based on how much you study/read/etc, but more on your minds ability to absorb small-large amounts of information. Charname definately has to be brighter than most in order to accomplish his goals, 15-16.

Wis - Charname definately isn't wise. He's a foolish kid, (derived from the stories told on his return to candlekeep). 7-8.

Cha - He is most definately a socially graced boy. Everyone in candlekeep knows him and people gladly come along with him on any quest. 16-18.

Stats will of course be naturally based on everyones opinion of what class/race charname should be. I think that's why it wasn't included in the original poll.

 

I'm pretty sure Bhaal's portfolio was Death, not Murder (I don't think there is a divine portfolio for murder). He called himself the Lord of Murder and preferred murderous death because he was an evil deity, not the other way around.

I don't think there's any kind of rule prohibiting good powers from having portfolios like Death, is there? Maybe Ao would object, who knows. I do think it would be pretty narrowminded and selfish for a good-aligned character with the opportunity to make that kind of difference to just walk away, considering how few mortals are ever given that chance, but oh well. Who says Death can't be a non-evil power? Haven't you ever read Discworld?

 

BG1 is a lot freer and allows for a lot more in it's storyline.

One thing I"m not seeing represented in what is written is the shere ammount of things at least in BG1 that point to a very applicable carreer as a thief. There are points from taking easy shortcuts and getting through on other people's good graces to even stories of you taking stuff as a young child. A skill that could have easily been turned into something more in a keep with not much to do and a whole lot of things your being told you can't mess with. What's the impulse of children growing up afterall when told they can't? Until they learn better it's usually to try and take it. And some try even after that.

For the full cannon you would have to move more towards human or half elf because they stop focussing really on the prophesy for the most part later on (Though ToB does recapture it to an extent) but Bhaal has had a long time to plot out this whole series of events and it is quite a grand plot on his end. Taking that into account it does open up the door for more things. It is also in fact the only way to take into account certain things. Such as Draconis in ToB. His father is a full dragon. The one thing that takes even longer than Elves to grow up.

Females are just as evil as males. The storyline around Sarevok indicates this well with the number of highly trusted females in his top echelons of his plan compared to men. As well as other female entagonists throughout the whole thing ranging from Bodhi to Mellisan to everything in between. Two of 5 in fact are female. 3 if you actually consider it's true number being 6 and count Mellisan as well. The only predeliction in the whole series to a particular sex is in SoA and that is largely the need to bang one of your fellow party members to put it far too bluntly. I consider this more smart marketing than really something to consider as part of the Canon myself given that a majority of gamers are male.

For alignment if we consider the growing up influences. Yes Gorion has some indeed good influence. The harpers as well through him. If we consider the many details of Candlekeep though. Then Neutral is the primary thing. Candlekeep is a very neutral place in and out of Conflict and practices a strict manner of neutrality through non-involvement. It's gates open to the good and the bad just as long as they meet the requirements and it does not protect one over the other. This is actually part of why Gorion chose it in my opinion. It's like moving to switzerland. No involvement means less chance of un-needed troubles.

Finally the whole series seems to be pushing you towards embracing your uniqueness. In otherwords the blood of godhood in your veins. However. None of it actually pushes you really to using it for good or evil despite the rather good slant of the rest of the game once you get past BG1 where a couple of it's dreams do seem to have an underlying theme of good over evil.

So my personal choices from all this.

sex-Female
Race- Elf (perhaps even a couple of the particular subspecies such as grey elf who would thrive in a candlekeep type environment)
Class- thief or mage or combination of the two. (Not following your formal studies does not mean you didn't study.)
alignment- Some form of Neutrality if not true Neutral
godhood- Yes. This is something that it most certainly seems the game is pushing you towards.

 

Do you remember any stories about Imoen taking stuff? No. Which can mean either she got away with it because she knew how and you didn't, or even that you took the heat for her thieveries (being the loving older sibling). Of course, if you want to be a thief (especially MC) you can just say that you weren't as good as her and that was why you got caught and she didn't.

What makes you think he's grown up? Abazigal always seemed a bit dull-witted to me. And half-dragons grow up quicker, hence Draconis's relative maturity.

 

I'm pretty sure they're both full blooded dragons, since half-dragons tend to take on a partial appearance of the other half bread into them and I'm not half/god or whatnot... Bhaals power allowed him to take on the roll of being whatever race he wished. So Abaz and Drac are both full blooded dragons methinks. The only explanation I can think of, is that they had haste cast on them about 500 times so they'd mature faster, since 20 years usually turns out a medium maybe large sized dragon, (depending on the type).

 

Half Dragons look simular to Elves with scaled wings. No matter what the other race they are mixed with is. At least in Second Edition. They are outlined in the Council of Wyrm's box and need to reach certain levels to unlock certain powers such as breath weapons, immunities, and limited flight. Their parent dragon type only has an affect on what kind of breath weapon and immunities they can develop.

They also have no powers what so ever to turn into full dragon forms. If 3rd Ed allows this then cool. But in Second edition just like anything with a human in it's ancestry was a half elf. Only full blooded dragons have a true dragon form. This makes Draconis and his father full dragons. This also means that Abizagal is a matured dragon which is something like 200-300 years to have bred a child. Dragons mate even fewer and farther between than Elves do.

So sadly in 2nd Edition the argument of "Maybe he's a half dragon" doesn't work. It's flawed at the very basis of the argument.

 

Heh. It wouldn't be TOB's first flagrant disregard for 2E's conventions. What's up with HLAs, anyway?

Man, this debate brings back old memories. For what it's worth, I always figured that they just threw Abazigal in there because dragons are cool or whatever, nevermind the logistics of it. Abazigal would need to be some 400 years old, at least. 400 years? Bhaal had half a millenia or more to plan ahead and he couldn't come up with anything more reliable than this hopelessly flawed claptrap?

Canonically it's easiest to assume that Bhaal hatched his elaborate, amazingly silly scheme for self-resurrection during the Time of Troubles, and all of the Bhaalspawn were created during that period. Elves, fire giants and dragons really have no business being children of Bhaal. Then again I dimly recall the original prophecy being that Bhaal would just let the kids duke it out and possess the victor, so maybe the dragon thing does make some sense, just not alongside the 'revised' storyline.

[ January 03, 2006, 13:43: Message edited by: Prine ]

 

HLAs are detailed in Dungeon Master's Option: High-Level Campaigns, but most of the stuff in ToB is either badly implemented or applied to the wrong class.

The only reason I thought Draconis might be a half-dragon is because I had a hard time explaining how Abazigal would have found another dragon who would mate with an infant, no matter how god-touched. I figured perhaps he just forced himself on one of the "lesser" races to produce Draconis, not unlike Bhaal himself. And as for the dragon form, Polymorph Self comes to mind; heck, he casts Invisibility so damn many times that he must be a high-level mage.

One thing I don't remember, though, is what colors they are. I'm pretty sure Abazigal is blue (don't you get the scales from him?), but what's Draconis? If he's a different kind of dragon, that would mean either he's adopted, or it could point to what kind of dragon Abazigal mated with to produce him.

 

Iirc Abigazal is blue and Draconis is brown...

 

Me, I have almost always played females, but have played males too. I just wasn't so impressed by the romances which came along for the Male PC, having to make a choice between Jaheria (who initially is supposed to be your guardian and has a husband in BG1, who is found dead at the hands of Irenicus in the beginning of SoA), Aerie the Avariel, who just seems like she is so whiny and hopeless, and Viconia whos banter is interesting with the PC, but she is a drow and evil, and just having her in the party lowers reputation (as in you take the -2 Reputation just for adding her to your party). The Anomen romance is not all that bad.

So my choice is Female PC

Definitely Human... and besides Imoen is Human, and if I read this correctly in some other source, Bhaal himself was a Human as a mortal.

Alignment is either chaotic good or chaotic neutral, as it seems that the PC, who is a child of Bhaal and was raised by Gorion, had Gorion heavily influence how and what they believed in...

Class: I would say Cleric. Immy is a thief in BG1, and dualed as a Mage/thief in SoA, and it has also been said that as a mortal, Bhaal was a thief. While there are other fairly good to excellent clerics available as NPC's ( Viccy and Anomen) Anomen is dual classed, and while Jaheria can preform a number of cleric like spells, she is technically a fighter with druid abilities, and besides the PC grew up in the hallowed walls of Candlekeep, which is full of different Clerics and Watchers, that this may be where the PC gained much of their education, from the Clerics, and being a Cleric would also suit a child of Bhaal, as you later find out in ToB, that the PC's mother was one of Bhaal's Priestesses.

@Prine,
"I don't think there's any kind of rule prohibiting good powers from having portfolios like Death, is there? " If you read any of the books out the by WOC, or the Faiths and Pantheons Manual, Kelemvor, the "Judge of the Dead", is Neutral, and Midnight, who became Mystra was his lover as mortals, is good aligned, so I would have to say No, there would be no prohibition on that.

Me personally, I like to remain mortal, still got a lot of living to do and things to see...

 

Hmmm Let's add this up. Alaundo the Wise created the Prophesy and he founded Candlekeep. Candlekeep is how old? But Bhaal has only had the rather short time of the Time of Troubles to come up with a plan and enact it?

His plan isn't half baked or all that messed up. It's right in line with his particular alignment and portfolio. he's one of the three gods that split up the origional portfolio of death. He happens to be the Lord of Murder. Let's kill tons of people and super charge my essence with the death of each other to claim and power my divinity into my rebirth. Sounds like a well thought out trick.

As for the dragon's. The blue and green are not your brightest of the bunch. Draconis himself is just super cheap all the way around. He's an un-needed accounter that just seems to have been put in to make the game a bit harder. He has the cheapest most annoying moves of all the dragons of the games and is the only one that frustrates me in a way that I will walk away from the game for a few days when he really gets bad.