Stalker's Fighting Styles

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What do you guys think is the best fighting style for a stalker to employ?
When I say fighting styles I mean both battle tactics and weapon (long sword, katana...) and style (single weapon, two weapons...) proficiences.

I know that the fighting style will be largely a matter of individual taste, but I am interested in what you guys think would be the best style?

From past experiences with Keldon and Korgan, I enjoy firing a few volleys of arrows into or chucking some axes at my enemies and letting them close the distance, then switching to melee weapons and engaging. However, in order to do this with a stalker who uses a bow as his ranged weapon, I must either use two-handed melee weapons such as spears and halbards, or use one single handed weapon. I dislike going to my inventory and equiping a second weapon in my offhand when I want to switch from range to melee: that seems like cheating. Same with shields. So, my thinking leads me to spend points in single-weapon fighting. This gives me some bonus to AC, which helps to make up for my only being able to wear studded leather, as well as increases my odds of scoring a critical hit: great for backstabbing.
What do you guys think about this tactic? Do you have any other ideas?

I also have two quick questions:
1.) Placing points in two-handed weapon fighting does NOT affect bows and crossbows, correct?
2.) I only just remembered that Rangers must be of good alignment; my original idea was to have a chaotic neutral stalker, and evil NPC's: Korgan, Edwin, Viconia, Sarevok, and Jan. (I don't have the mods to get Selufain (sp) or Valen) Should I expect any problems from my NPC companions provided my reputation remains generally between 10 and 12?
Actually, that question begs one final question: If my party's reputation drops below 10, I lose my special ranger abilities; if, later, it rises to 10 or above, do I regain those abilities?

Thanks in advance,
-Geoff

[edit] removed repeated sentance [/edit]

[ July 23, 2004, 21:06: Message edited by: Geoff ]

 

First, the stalker fighting style is all about stealth, stealth and backstab. Oh, and two-weapon fighting. Did I mention backstab? Although, the second weapon doesn't count for backstabbing it does help in killing the enemy very quickly. Just backstab, then go invis. Mixed weapons, longswords and shortswords are about the best I reckon. There is a shortsword that has a chance to make you invis, which is reallly cool for a stalker. Never really use bows much for my stalker, don't need to as I am nearly always in stealth.

2H-style only affects the use of 2h-weapons. It adds to speed and criticals. It has no affect on ranged weapons.

You will actually do more damage through stealth and backstab with 1 or 2 weapons than you will with ranged weapons. Let your other party members provide ranged support, thats what they're there for.

As to the party. You can go with almost anyone really. It's all about the reputation not just their alignment, as long as you keep it between 5-18 all alignments will be happy. You can justify it to yourself, because, if you rescue Viconia, you shouldn't just abandon her that wouldn't be good. Besides, you have to use what resources are available to get Imoen back safely.

I think the reputation limit is 5 or 6. The only way to remove your fallen status is to complete the ranger quest/stronghold.

 

Thanks for answering all those questions!

Definitely, my stalker would be mostly about backstabbing, but I would like to make him as versatile as possible.
If I use two weapons that limits my character mostly to front line fighting, since it does not seem right at all to, during the middle of a battle, put my bow into my pack and grab a secondary sword.
So, solely in terms of front-line fighting, would it be better to use one weapon or two? Grants me extra abilities and an extra attack, but one allows me to get critical strikes twice as often, which is in itself a major advantage, as well as reducing my AC.
*some time later*
Well, after reasoning stuff through, I think I'll take two swords. I think my stalker will need the extra abilities of a second weapon, and rangers are already proficient with using two weapons. Plus, if I for see the use of a bow in a certain upcoming battle as more effective than swords, I can still make the switch.

More comments are always appreciated.

 

You can justify the weapon switch by looking to novels. Often in novels a character will pluck away a few arrows then throw down their bow and draw a blade or two. It amounts to the same thing, really. And think about it, if you will pause the game to give orders, how is that any less cheating than going to the inventory and switching weapons around? Also, most weapons are carried in a holder of some sort designed for the weapon so they can be readily available. I think that is why it's allowed. If you notice, you are not allowed to equip armor during a battle, so the developers thought this out a bit. So, in conclusion, it actually makes sense to switch weapons around during battle.

 

Pausing to give orders to party members is understandable though because there's one player controlling 6 characters. Scripting isn't that great, especially for spell casters. If I were soloing or playing online with 5 other people, I would not pause.

one other quick question about party alignment: does Keldorn get into any serious trouble with Edwin, Viconia, Korgan, or Sarevok? Again, provided the reputation is above 10 and below 15 or so.

 

If you're going to play a Stalker, then for goodness sake use the abilities you pay for! IIRC, the ranger (and paladin) classes max outat around level 31 or so, while a fighter does so at level 40 -- this means that as a ranger you sacrifice 9 levels of potential for . . . . what? Well, extra points placed into the two weapon style, stealth, some minimum ability requirements, up to 3rd level spell use, and IIRC, some charm animals abilities (I seem to remember that my archer couldn't charm animals like Minsc could in BG1 -- silly ability, I rarely used it in BG1 and never in BG2). For a Stalker, you get better stealth, some extra spells, and backstab ability. Given that the kit is pretty well DESIGNED around stealth, I'd use it to it's upmost.

What that boils down to in my opinion is that you want to specialize in long swords and then dual wield them. They are heavy hitting weapons and you'll be able to backstab with them, while you can't with the heavier weapons like 2 handed swords or bastard swords. You can then get some short bow skill if you wish to stick with the Ranger motif and role play, or if you want to powergame a little, get some skill in axes and use a shield to throw some axes from behind before you drop the shield, draw another longsword, and move in.

Oh, unless you have the happy party mod installed, Keldorn will eventually kill Viconia if you don't kick one or the other out. They actually fight, but I've never heard yet of her beating him, though I suppose if you really juiced her up with items and gave Keldorn nothing, she might stand a chance, but I doubt it.

 

Poor Viconia.
And yes, I intend to backstab a lot. I don't know where you got the idea that I wasn't going to. The whole idea of the bow is solely for versatility. There are bound to be many situations when it's best for my PC to stand back, be it because of traps, lasting spell effects, or enemies who are taking great advantage of my Stalker's relatively high AC.

anywho, I've revamped the party:
Me - Elven Chaotc Good Stalker, dual wielding long swords
Imoen - take Yoshi until I get her back
Edwin
Anomen
Keldorn
Sarevok - If I find I need more melee until getting Sarevok, I'll take Korgan.

 

If you really want to be realistic, you shouldn't be dual wielding with anything but a dagger or maybe a shortsword in your off-hand.
IRL it's very rare for two-weapon styles to attack with both; the off-hand weapon is used as a parry.

 

Having played through with one, and using Valygar whenever I can fit him, a Stalker should probably have a second-wave melee role (and missile where that is necessary or if distance is an important consideration). After Keldorn and Anomen engage (or draw an attacker), the Stalker should ideally hit from behind with a dual-wielding backstab. For best results, use katanas; for more realistic results, use either a longsword and a shortsword, or a katana and a wakizashi (Celestial Fury/Hindo's Doom + Usuno's Blade are probably the best of those in ToB). Stalker AC isn't that bad - between the Night's Gift and Shadow Dragon Scale (both linked to the Ranger stronghold) and an Elf's high DEX, plus a few miscellaneous items, a Stalker can easily get a very low AC.

Short bows are the better (and better suited) missile weapon for a ranger - the Tuigan Bow and then Gesen's Bow are easy to get in SoA. Combined with your "shoot-'em-and-stick-'em" approach to combat, your Stalker would benefit from the first ring of invisibility, strength item and boots of speed you can find to both pepper your foes with arrows, turn invisible, then rush up and backstab to help your front-liners (and if need be, to run if you're copping a pounding).

 

The posts in this thread seems to agree on dual-wielding as the obvious choice for a Stalker - and I'll agree that it's the most powerful way to play him (at least until HLAs and GWW). But I like to use my Stalker as a more versatile fighter than just a stealth/backstab/stealth/etc. frontliner.

First of all Stalkers make great mage killers with their high stealth ability and high DEX for ranged attacks. Actually he can be played a bit like an Assassin in this regard. Either backstab the mage, before he can get his defences up - or attack him with an Arrow of Piercing (the poison damage will make most of his spells fail). Then use a Potion or Ring of Invisibility and take it from there.

Of course there are a lot of ways to deal with mages and Insect Plague and/or Keldorn wielding Carsomyr are probably more efficient - but sometimes I like to do things differently. Besides, this seems to be a very stalkerish way to deal with mages - and their parties.

Your party doesn't need another tank with Keldorn and Korgan/Saravok up front, so when it comes to balancing your party, you are free to use your Stalker in a way that keeps him off the frontlines.

Take ** in One Weapon Fighting Style for the extra chance of critical hits, which is great when backstabbing,** in long bow (or short, but I won't have my warriors running around with short bows) and ** in katanes or long swords. Then you're set for backstabbing and ranged attacks - and later on you can build up you skill with Halberd/Two Handed Sword and Two Handed Weapon Style. With the HLA Greater Whirlwind you'll generally do more damage with a two handed weapon - but obviously you'll only get the benefits of a single weapon.

It seems to me that adding ranged attacks to the Stalkers rep., makes him a more fun character to play, because you won't be backstabbing/hiding all the time. And keep in mind that this actually makes him a more lethal backstabber.

On the other hand, dual-wielding looks cool.

 

Get ** in Katanas and Scimitars. Also, *** in Two Weapons. Towards end game, you could get ** in Longswords as well.

Celestial Fury's 1d10 +3 damage range assures you of awesome backstab damage.

Get Belm +2 for your off hand, and you're set. Later on, when you feel that you don't really need that extra attack too badly, and you want more power, go for Angurvadal +5 in your off hand, and switch it around with Celestial Fury when the enemy needs to be hit with a +4 weapon or better.

 

"If you really want to be realistic, you shouldn't be dual wielding with anything but a dagger or maybe a shortsword in your off-hand.
IRL it's very rare for two-weapon styles to attack with both; the off-hand weapon is used as a parry. "

This isn't really accurate. There is a fencing club near where I live that I attend regularily, and there we often have matches where each competitor uses 2 epees. We have no problems, and it can often lead to some exciting matches between 2 experienced competitors. Roleplaying wise, If you're a ranger, you should have a high dexterity <for stealth skill as well as the fact that bows are a common weapon for them, and that they Dual-Wield at all>, so this is an excuse for using two large <i.e, not Dagger/Shortsword> swords in combat.

 

yeah..... i fence foil and we regularly fence with 2 of them. Anyway, you could imagine that he puts his weapons in crossed scabbards on his back or on either side of his waist. Then, he could drop the bow and instantly be attacking with the swords.

 

Just beat the game with my stalker.
I started the game dual-wielding longswords and katanas, but by the time I had 3 attacks per round with my main hand only, I decided to dump the offhand weapon. Also, by this time, I had put ** into single weapon style. I also used longbows much more when I was using only one sword, and this made me a more versatile character. I could, however, always equip the equalizer or some other weapon in my offhand for resistances whenever I needed them.
my final weapons were Angurvadal + 5 and Taralash + 4. I enjoyed having the +2 move speed from taralash, the + 2 from the amulet of cheetah speed, and the boots of speed, making me a speed demon. I could do all sorts of interesting tactics with this speed. Imagine if I was a barbarian or kensai!

 

For fighter type characters (those that get multiple attacks/round) pretty much the only reason to dual wield is for the special abilities which the second weapon gives you. You're not dual wielding for any extra damage, because at best that is marginal.

It's different for thieves who do not get extra attacks/round or whirlwind.

Don't get me wrong, dual wielding is absolutely fantastic, but it's because of the great abilities which weapons (especially in ToB) grant.

Clearly a Stalker should be dual wielding and just as clearly he should try to backstab in the tougher fights.

 

I would tend to agree that dual wielding is the way to go, but since you're against it, I would say that single weapon style is the way to go. Two weapon style really isn't going to do much for you. The only weapon that is two handed that a stalker can backstab with is a quarterstaff, and for the most part, quarterstaves are geared towards mages/sorcerers/druids/clerics, and not stalkers.

The main advantages of two handed weapon fighting style are (assuming you spend two proficiency points):

1. Critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 instead of just 20.

2. Speed bonus.

On the other hand, the advantages of single weapon style are (again, assuming you spend two proficiency points):

1. Critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 instead of just 20.

2. A bonus of 2 in AC.

So clearly, given those options, single weapon style is the way to go. Moreover, since the quarterstaff is the only allowable two-handed weapon that can backstab, it's not even that great damage wise (base 1d6). A scimitar, long sword, or katana all do more damage than a quarterstaff, and a club or short sword do the same damage as a quarterstaff. The only weapon where the quarterstaff does more damage is compared to a dagger.

So I'd take the bonus of 2 to AC. With single handed weapons the speed factor isn't as important because they are faster weapons than their two handed counterparts. In fact, I imagine most single handed weapons are faster than two handed weapons even after you factor in the speed bonus from two handed weapon style.

 

Don't forget the Staff+4 available right at the beginning of SOA. Plus, isn't there the Staff of the Ram +4 (+6 upgraded) later on in the game - this is one of the few weapons than can easily hit mages even with high protections.

 

i would go 2 handed weapon, or 2 weapon spec.

as in your case i would go 2 handed, i think you can backstab with a Staff as well, then go for SHORTBOWS and Staff.


if your goin for 2 weapon style, then go katana and scimitar, the best combo in the game.

and yes the staff of the ram does exist, and can i be upgraded to +6, not many weapons can do that...


Balle