Opinions on Romances.

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well i think that they should have made a mazzy mod but made a real evil way to go through it resulting in mazzy being brutally slaughtered by a jelous korgon. lol i absolutly hate mazzy!

i also like the vironica romance mostly because she is the only women in the game without pigtails in her hair which is kinda apealing lol.

 

I'm really not into the romances.

Sure, they're kinda fun, but I hate how long they are, and I hate pausing my game when I go out so that they will be finished before the end of Chapter 6.

Best option: Play a Dwarf.

 

Dwarves need theirs too yknow

hehe.

 

Well then: why not make a mod that magically transforms all romance-interests to dwarves and for dwarves only.

 

Am I the only person who finds Aerie adorable? She laments the loss of her wings, sure, but consider her situation. Captured, enslaved, kept in a cage, amputated - it's not like venting over a life like that should be considered "whining". I think she grows admirably during the series, and she's my favorite romance.

 

Truper: Yes. Really, j/k.

I don't think Aerie necessarily whines. I understand for an avariel to lose their wings would be like a human to lose their legs or something. But it's like, okay Aerie. You lost your wings. *We get it*. Jaheira's husband was brutally murdered. Viconia is an outcast from her people, and is a pariah wherever she goes. Shut. Up! Aerie. Jeebus, she's like the Lana Lang of Baldur's Gate.

YMMV, of course, but Aerie honestly bugs me. It's like she's some kind of Frankenstein monster made from every wretched stereotype I hate about female characters in RPGs. She's a weak magic user. She's constantly crying about her wings. And the way her romance ends? Just...no. I'm shocked she doesn't spit out a little pink unicorn. With wings. That get ripped off! And then it cries.

Modders?

 

Aerie is what she is: a sixteen year old girl (essentially) who has had a very rough experience. In that sense, she is essentially like any sixteen year old girlfriend one could ever have, right down to when she offers herself sexually and the "right" answer is "no."

 

Viconia is...Viconia. She's awesome. AND she's evil. That's a plus point. I don't know why that is though.

Jaheira: I don't really fancy taking up with a woman who's lost her husband only days earlier.

Aerie: She's the second best romance option, for me, I guess, as I can identify with her as well.

Anomen: I'm a guy. Enough said.

 

I had a long response typed out, but I decided to delete it. I think it's well-established how much I hate Aerie, and if I harp on it much longer, I'd be a tad hypocritical.

I really lament the loss of that Haer'Dalis romance. RP-wise he is by far my favorite character, so much so that I almost always take him with me despite the fact that he is usually the weak link in my group. I guess it's because I was a theater geek in high school and I just love colorful bards. Is there a romance mod for him at all? I've looked and looked and haven't come across one yet, just one that was apparently abandoned.

I'd also like to check out that Valygar mod if anyone knows where to get it.

 

Yeah, Anomen's annoying and self-righteous to the extreme, but that seems to go with being a paladin. Since I normally play female characters, straight relationships are hard to come by otherwise. I wish someone might write one for Haer'Dalis...if Aerie gets to romance him, why not Charname?
Jaheira's romance seems more realistic than it might first appear. Yes, her husband is brutally killed. But if you look carefully at the dialogue, you realize that she's struggling with her attraction to Charname in the beginning. I always wonder if she didn't have a thing for him back in BG1; it'd explain a lot. Besides, I kinda like the fact that she's not just waiting for some 'big strong man to sweep her off her feet.'
Aerie...she bugs me. The simpering, the clinging, the helpless looks for approval...gag. Jaheira and Viconia are strong women in their own right, with or without a man... MUCH more attractive in my mind. Yeah, she's (relatively) young and inexperienced, but that's no reason to defer so much and so easily.
Viconia, IMO, is the girl most programmers want to meet. The portrait's halfway attractive, without the stupid braids every other female's stuck with. She's easy (at least her background as a Drow suggests that she is) and she does compliment more evil characters. She's got one of the more interesting backstories, but I can't seem to bring myself to take her along (goody-two-shoes + Drow = big mess).

 

Despite being male I have romanced both Anomen and Kelsey but I found niether as understandable as Jaheira.

Anomen has been awarded the title 'Annoyman' rather deservedly. Kelsey, however, is too much of a 'nice guy' in my books. He's always commenting on how he isn't good enough for you and he can't imagine how you would choose him, almost like he's trying to convince you to dump him. Some of his comments might be sweet but they were delived with as much finesse as an armless pizza-delivery boy...

 

It would be good if someone made a more aggressive romance. One where the NPC would be the one to approach Charname, protect them and advise them. Sort of a Viconia / Tashia whatever combination (maybe those two aren't the best description but they should give some idea as to what I mean). The classic problem with most of the romances is that the NPC's are self-pitying little whiners who cling to the player for support. It's confidence that usually attracts people, afterall.

Especially in the case of males. From what I've tried and heard about the male romances, they all behave like uncertain little schoolboys. Whatever the talk in the mainstream media etc, a fact is that women want *men*, not little boys. If the guy in the game is a wuss that would make the average nerd seem like Conan the Barbarian, then how can anyone seriously expect someone to like him? A romance with a male NPC should focus on the protectiveness of the male, and his attempts to hide his weaker more humane side. And as the romance progressed, on how the continued growth of affection towards the Charname would show as a growing tenderness for her the male did not show before. Ultimately leading to a chrisis where the male felt threatened by his increasing powerlessness in the face of the Charname's growth towards her godhood.

 

Good point Fordesthar. I also think the comments that most of the men make are not age-appropriate. The talk like they are about high school aged. While it's impossible to tell how old Anomen is, he certainly seems to me to be at least in his mid-20s, maybe even older. With Kelsey, you know almost exactly how old he is. He tells you he left his home when he was 16, and has spent most of the last 8 years travelling. So he's darn close to 24. From a man's perspective, I'd never hook up with a girl acting like Kelsey did. While Anomen is arrogant and pompous, he is also very confident. In this regard he is a more representative embodiment of a "man's man" so to speak, than the juvenile-minded Kelsey. That having been said, Kelsey is still an excellent mod.

 

The latest version of Domi's Valygar romance is at http://www.fwstudios.net .

And I thought I'd heard it all about Kelsey by now.

 

We can be creative when it comes to critique.

IMO, Aerie romance isn't "whining" and I have to wonder how some people understand it so, but they probably also think that the job of psychologist is all about listening whining instead of understanding. But whatever; each to their own.

 

@Wirhe
See this is the problem, Aerie needs a psychologist, not a lover (and since she turns dumps him if he does act the lover, this proves my point).

I always found it odd that Aerie's the one that whines and cries and despairs most, and if you compare her to the others her trials aren't that bad: Jaheira's lost her husband and betrayed the Harpers, Anomen's been disavowed by his father and his sister's dead (and that's the best case...), and Viconia's an outcast among people who hate her for no reason other than her being Drow, and she has those same Drow after her blood, not to mention an angry goddess... and Aerie's lost her wings?

Not much of a comparison if you ask me.

@Foradasthar
Interesting ideas. What I like about Jaheira is that she constantly doubts and questions Charname's motives, and at one point even thinks Dermin might have been right. Quite a far cry from the adoration that emanates from Aerie.
Viconia's even better from this point of view: she often pushes you however she pleases, complete with mood swings and all.
It would be nice to see a mod (whether male or female) taking advantage of romances as a power struggle too, instead of the "help me Charname you're my only hope!" approach they all take at one point or the other in the original game.

 

@jcompton: Thanks for the link. If you were an NPC, I'd romance you!

@Tananda: I guess what bothers me the most about Annoyman is he is yet another example of the way 95% of paladins or paladin-esque characters are roleplayed, that is as pompous, arrogant jerks. Being a paladin != being a pompous, arrogant jerk! I think the problem is very few people know how to write or roleplay paladins without falling into that very simple stereotype. It's very possible to be a good aligned holy knight without being an asshat. Sir Sparhawk from the Elenium series by David Eddings is a great example (tho' his behavior sometimes leans more towards neutral good). Obi Wan Kenobi is another. Frog from Chrono Trigger. Etc, ad nauseum. Hell, even in BG2 itself, Keldorn is a has some strong views (esp. if you have Vikky in your group ;_, but he's not a jerk the way Anomen is. I happen to like the concept of holy knights, despite the fact that most of my D&D & cRPG characters tend to be rangers, and it irks me to see them constantly characterized as pompous pricks. It's the sign of a lazy imagination IMO, just like weak female magic users *cough*.

Years and years ago there was an excellent article in Dragon Magazine on the subject. I only wish the BG TPTB would have read it.

 

I find Anomen annoying and arrogant, but he gets better later on. Especially when you add the Flirtpacks Kelsey is nice. What else can I say? Very nice. So nice that sometimes I wish I could just get a conglomerate Anomen-Kelsey kind of NPC. So...Solaufein is also appealing to me. Gah! Mebbe I'm just getting desperate *shrugs*

Being a straight female I kinda find it weird to play a male character...although I'd go for Jaheira or Viconia anyday over Aerie. I agree with Paine a lot.


@Foradasthar
A lot of what you mentioned there is the kind of stuff I'm hoping to/trying to/in the process of doing for the Sarevok mod I'm working on right now.

 

A Sarevok mod? Sweet! How far along are you, and do you have a link? It's probably because I played BG1 after I played BG2, but I can't hate him. I love the idea of being able to romance him. Just as long as there's no "But he has a soooooul now!" type dialogue.

I like the brooding men, what can I say? Sarevok intrigued me, way more than he probably should have, and to be frank I only played BG1 just to see more of him. One could even call me a Sarevok fangirl. Among the many things I was disappointed with ToB about was the fact that you didn't really get inside his head much.

I'm glad it wasn't just me...

 

Sarevok would be a very good example. He's the only NPC in the entire BG saga that I can respect. Well besides Minsc of course, but Minsc is... Minsc.

Sarevok's stats (average wisdom, very high int, and high charisma) fit my idea of him perfectly. He was required to be intelligent and charismatic to do what he did in BG1, and his dialogues in BG2: ToB were exactly what you'd expect from one like him. Even when he turned to good, he didn't whine. He didn't seem weak at all, just someone who used his intelligence to logically try and determine the truth and wisdom behind Charname's words. Sarevok's charisma was such that you could feel it through the screen.

Sarevok, now that I think about it, is the only character I never considered beneath me as charname. Something I should protect of watch over for. In every game I've played, he's been the first one to go into battle, and the last one to leave. The one solid power that would never fail no matter what the challenge. The only NPC I considered at least as equal in power and presence, possibly even more.

I can imagine that a Sarevok romance done right would be the best and most traditionally realistic female romance ever in a CRPG before. The only bad thing there is that he has many dialogues throughout BG1 & 2 where he refers to himself as Charname's brother. While I've never thought of Imoen as Charname's sister either, at least you aren't constantly told she was such a thing.