A solo sorcerer in Chapter 2...how to survive?

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Well I am just not so experienced I think...
I remember reading some topic saying that sorcerer is a very powerful class and a solo sorcerer can beat almost everything for example Twistid Rune in Chapter 2.
Can someone tell me how it is done?A solo sorcerer in chapter 2 beating whole guardians in Twisted Rune???I never played solo and I normally use fighting classes in this game...

 

It's all about picking the right spells. IMO, beating the Twisted Rune in Ch2 requires 2 things: Set the game on its easiest difficulty, and beef up your character with ShadowKeeper.

I mean, come on! Taking on a lich, an assassin, a Hive Mother, and a few other baddies all at a level attainable by Ch2? You would literally have to do every single side quest in the the game possible at that point... And that doesn't leave much fun for later in the game.

 

That is exactly what I did. I sent my sorcerer all over Amn, doing nearly every side quest. Then, with over 3 million experience, I acquired Time Stop. If you just want to beat them before go to Chapter 4, that is what I recommend. If you want to do it with a low-level sorcerer, well, may Tymora smile on you, because you are dead if she doesn't!

 

Well, it's chapter 2 and 3 actually. You can shift to chapter 3 at any time -- during my solo (C/T) I had enough money to pay off Aran right before ever leaving the slums (the amulet comes in handy for a spell caster). I have over 4 million xp's (and a boatload of HLA's) and haven't gone to Spellhold.

You need to do the easy quests first and build up your level. Slowly progress to the more difficult quests -- take on Twisted Rune later.

 

It surely can be done in Chapter 2, because I soloed a sorcerer and when I hit level 15, I went for the Twisted Rune fight. At that point, my sorcerer had 1900593 experience points. What do you need do win the fight:

- to be level 15 (skeleton warriors are awesome (and the key to winning this fight)!)
- spells: project image, animate dead, haste, breach (melf’s minute meteors, skull trap and true sight can also be useful)
- optional: the staff of air +2 (to summon a lesser air elemental)
- also optional (although highly recommended): robe of vecna (it makes the fight easier because you can cast a lot faster)
and the rest doesn’t really matter.


*SPOILER WARNING (well, kinda)!!!*

The tactic:
The key technique of the beginning of this fight is fighting one enemy at a time. If another enemy from the larger room comes in, restart the battle. It so much more difficult when facing two enemies at a time. One exception is if Revanek happens to enter the smaller room. He’s no match for a few skeleton warriors and will quickly die.

When you enter the chamber where the fight will take place, you’ve got one small room and a larger one. Notice the door on the left and open this door when you enter. It gives you some space to cast out of eyesight of enemies. Start by casting project image and then 5 skeleton warriors and beef them up with haste. Chop down the image so you can control your own sorcerer again. Put the skeleton warriors on the left of the small room. Then activate the conversation with Shangalar (the lich) who appears on the big round table. As soon as this conversation has ended, run as fast as you can (boots of speed anyone?) to the far left of the small room (up the stairs). Shangalar will probably cast death spell, so your skeleton warriors are gone. This isn’t really a problem, because they were mainly cast for distraction of Shangalar (the reason why you should cast 5 hasted skeleton warriors is that they will do more damage to Shangalar when they are distracting him).

While Shangalar is distracted from attacking you, walk up the stairs to the left, so Shangalar won’t be able to see you and he won’t attack you. This is the time to cast another project image, along with 5 skeleton warriors beefed up with haste. Let one of the skeleton warrior attack Shangalar so he will cast death spell again (or if he doesn’t cast death spell, send in the other skeleton warriors as well). Then attack him with the other four skeleton warriors. Throw in a breach to get rid of the defences of Shangalar and he will fall quickly. Melf’s minute meteors can also help defeat Shangalar. Most of the time he will summon an Efreeti, just beat him with your skeleton warriors and use true sight when he goes invisible.

When standing on the stairs, you could use the staff of air +2 to summon a lesser air elemental which blocks the opening to the stairs, so enemies won’t be able to directly hit you. If you let your image use the staff to summon a lesser air elemental, your original sorcerer will still be able to summon one (as with all charged items).

Once Shangalar is defeated, it is time to lure in Ravenek (and only Ravenek) in the small room (if he didn’t enter it already). You can kill him with 5 hasted skeleton warriors, so let them stand ready in the small room before you lure in Ravenek. He shouldn’t be much of a problem.
Once Ravenek is out of the picture, all that remains are Vaxall (the beholder), Layene (mage who has the staff of the magi!) and Shyressa (a vampire). If you have any skeleton warriors left, cast fresh ones to get 5 skeleton warriors again (cast them with a project image) and haste them. Now send them in the big room while you stay safely in the smaller room. The hasted skeleton warriors will take down all the enemies in the large room if you’re lucky. If they happened to be defeated, just cast 5 new skeleton warriors and haste them (if you got any left, again with project image, otherwise, use the spells of your own sorcerer). When there is only one enemy left and your skeleton warriors are having problems defeating the enemy, you could help them by firing one or a few skull traps. And that should do the trick.

*END OF SPOILER!!!*


So all it takes is a level 15 sorcerer with the right spells and some tactic. The tactic doesn’t always work out the same, because sometimes your skeleton warriors will walk to far when fighting Shangalar so they lure other enemies in the small room. So keep your skeleton warriors out of the sight of the other enemies. If you try this tactic a few times, you will succeed.

 

That's a good tactic, FVMF, but a bit cheesy. I prefer taking down the toughies without Project Image. It's just more fun to take them down by myself. Sure, it takes some more levelling, but there's no feeling quite as good as Time Stopping a group of lich/beholder/vampire/mage and pumping them full of Horrid Wilting or Sunfire.

But hey, whatever works, I guess.

 

@ hendak - why would you say that using PI is cheesy? Actually, I would consider using spells not available if you're playing an SoA-only game (ie Time Stop) more cheesy.

I beat Twisted Rune late in Ch. 2 as well. Combination of summons (skeleton wariors and mordy swords), haste, breach (or was it pierce magic?), true sight, skull trap, ADHW, and probably a few others that I don't recall. It wasn't a particularly difficult battle.

 

Cheese isn't about power, cheese is about misuse. A Projected Image is not a clone of you, that can use spells that you don't have to give up (unlike Simulacrum), it is only a projection. Any spell it casts should come out of your memorized spells because it is only a link back to your mind, not a different one. The cheese comes in where the game does treat it as a separate entity, meaning that you can empty your repertoire using a PI and still have everything ready to cast afterwards. To say nothing of using Chain Contingency to circumvent the "only one Projected Image" rule...

 

I smell a challenge for the scenario game
Anybody have a saved game at that point who'd like to share it with everyone else?

 

What about Improved Twisted Rune battle guys, what level do you think a solo character be able to beat them all?

Major Differences:Smarter mages&liches, armed with Triggers, Sequencers, tons of additional protections and smarter spell selections (no more gating Pitfiends which will kill you. That was the most stupid AI in the entire game! Also, more PfMW, Stoneskins, and ABDHWs.) creatures spawn in different places, (some next to you!) lich casts Teleport Field which dispels everything and summons you to his feet if he can not see you (so no hiding), the sorceress Layene actually uses the whole powers of the SoM, that is:Spelltrap, and invisible after each casting, she is hardest to kill.

I think it is still doable, but you will need Spell Immunity:Abjuration (for Dispel/remove magics) and Alteration (for cheesy Teleport Field) and lots of more buffs or you will be dead in an instant.

Wanna try it? I have a hard time beating all of them with an uber party, but it is all worth it. (the sweet SoM! Yay!)

 

You know...I've hit the XP cap with a solo Sorcerer in Chapter 2/3 (quest availability wise, they are both the same so differentiation between the two is moot) ... yeah, so I don't see why you can't beat the Twisted Rune in Chapter 2.

Its only a matter of running around and doing enough quests till you are powerful enough.

Having said that...I'd say accumulate levels till you can cast lvl 8 spells, go nuts with Incendiary Cloud, Imp. Invisibility and SI: Divination...none of those berks in the Twisted Rune has any notable Magic Resistance or Fire damage immunity...

 

@ Felinoid:

Are you saying that PI is bugged and is not working the way it’s supposed to? If so, any evidence to support that?

Or are you just saying that the logic behind PI is faulty? In which case, I’d have to disagree. Sure, PI is just an “illusionary copy” (as per the spell description), but if spells cast should come from the caster’s spellbook, why not HP’s when it takes damage? For that matter, since it’s just an illusion, why would it have HP’s or the ability to cast spells in the first place?

My point is this – there are 3 clone spells: Mislead, Project Image and Simulacrum. Each one becomes progressively more effective, and the game designers decided that PI clones should have their own spell book (perhaps to differentiate them more from Mislead clones), just like they have their own HP’s. And since I have no real-world experience with any of these spells, I’m not really in a position to argue with them. But in the end, everyone is free to play the game the way they want – it is just a game, after all.

P.S. - Sorry, I know this is a bit off-topic

 

I see what you're saying Splunge, and I don't know if what Felinoid said is true or not, not having much experience with PI. Basically, I hate summons. Simulcrum, PI, the MS series, Gate, Nishruu, etc.

I think that FVMF's tactics are cheesy in that he doesn't do any killing himself, but just spawns in Skeleton Warriors to do his dirty work. I want to take them out myself. I like using my characters, and no others. It holds me back a bit in tough fights, but feels more consistent to me. If I need a fighter, I'll polymorph myself.

 

It's right in the name: Projected Image. Everything done is projected through the image, not created by the image. It is only a projection, an image, not a being capable of independant thought. Contrary to your grouping, Mislead and Projected Image are not cloning spells, though they have been made to seem that way in the game; they are simple (well, not simple ) illusions, facsimiles with no actual substance. In fact, them having any HPs at all is due to laziness in not making them illusions in more than name. Illusions cannot be harmed or killed, though a good illusionist will make illusions appear to suffer damage they should.

Given how I feel you're wording your argument, I'm going to stay away from the 2e spell definitions, but I can provide those as well if you wish. Looking at the spell descriptions in the manual, pay close attention to the words used. Mislead uses the word 'image' exclusively to describe what the spell does. PI uses the words 'illusionary' and 'image'. But Simulacrum talks about a 'duplicate', a 'simulacrum'. This one thing is a solid creation, unlike the others. (TBH, I was never sure why it was classed as illusion/phantasm when it's a physical creation. It would better fit in Conjuration or Evocation, or perhaps Alteration since it's typically created from ice or snow.)

EDIT:
Ah, right, the spells. Well, spells and HP work quite differently. For one, they go in opposite directions. Swinging through an illusion doesn't send some sort of feedback to a caster, or illusions would be like sticking your mage in the front line to tank. Mirror Image would be pointless, as every time one of those images got hit and disappeared, you'd still take the damage anyway. The whole point of illusions is creating the image of something that isn't really there.

But spells have to come from somewhere. Are they to come from a waving image on the sands? An illusion does not think, does not have a mind to hold such arcane knowledge in. Nor does it have a form to channel the power through with arcane gestures (material components aside). To be blunt, rays of light simply aren't equipped to cast a spell.

[ September 12, 2006, 22:48: Message edited by: Felinoid ]

 

Wa...so many replies...haha!
Now I see that it's not as I've thought.Looks like however strong the character is,he(she)can still not face all of the guardians in Twisted Rune.
In this way I think I can take the Twisted Rune on my own...
But...tactics MOD really makes these fights frustrating...I didn't make any preparation before going into the Copper Coronet and it took me almost an hour to take care of all slavers...and...anybody has a good idea how to take out undead solaufein...?

 

Well, neither is anything else, other than in a made-up fantasy world. And if, in such a world, a sentient being can cast spells, why not a magically-enhanced ray of light?

But seriously (well, kinda) - Felinoid, you obviously take this stuff way more seriously than me. I look at a spell’s description, try not to abuse its intent (nor generally abuse game bugs) (and no, I don't want to get into a discussion about what constitutes abuse ), sit back, and have some fun. So if, in a make-believe non-existent world, an illusion has it’s own spellbook, I'm not going to get too hung up on that. But we all have our own way of enjoying our games, and I don’t view one as better than another. Unless the other involves Fake Talk .

@ Lionheart – I usually have Tactics installed, but for my Sorcerer solo (first attempt, and still going at it – just started ToB) I went back to the basic game, mainly because I’ve never tried a mainly-magic approach, let alone while soloing, so I was pretty sure Tactics would be too much for me (and I think I was right). So I’m afraid I can’t help you with your question.

Edit: typo

[ September 13, 2006, 03:02: Message edited by: Splunge ]

 

Because those are the rules of this made-up fantasy world, and I know them well. If you don't trust me to give them to you faithfully, you can go out and purchase your own materials and learn the rules yourself. Saying "well maybe..." just because you want to exploit a mistake of the game is a rather cheap way out, IMO.

And it's not like there aren't likely thousands out there who use this broken spell without regret, even knowing that surely this isn't the way the spell is meant to be. I don't see what's so hard in admitting that what you're doing is cheese...unless you want to appear to maintain some sort of honor, but don't want to actually do what it takes. Which, again, would be cheap.

See, that's just it; it doesn't. The only reason it appears to is because again they just didn't bother to go through the extensive extra coding that would be required to link the PI's spellcasting to your spellbook. The results of laziness or a short deadline for release do not equal intent.

 

I always thought PI's spells were illusions too, but so realistic that they become real, it is as if the real caster was casting real spells.

Anyway, Lionheart, you need to dispel Undead Sola's Spell Immunities, and then he is toasted. To do this, you need a high detect illusions thief, or Chain Contingency three Ruby Ray of Reversal to nearest enemy (and pray it is Sola) so his SI:Abjuration, Divination, and Evocation will be gone. Then True Sight, and Breach him, lower his resistance, and bombard him to death.

Or, simpler solution: Time Stop, and when his PwfMW is down (you will hear a slight sound effect) bash in with your SoM! This will dispel his buffs.

Or have a lvl 40 Cleric turn him to dust. Not many of those are around, however.

Ofcourse, you need to be protected from MW during this, or his insta-kill attacks will claim you. Oh, and Improved Bodhi will do yet more nasty nasty things to you. Have fun!

 

I'll be honest and say I've NEVER used PI

 

Felinoid, you say a PI doesn’t have its own spellbook because you think it shouldn’t; I say it does have its own spellbook because that’s the way the spell is designed. You refer to rules, I suppose in a 2e PnP d&d environment. This is BG2, and all I care about are the rules in that world. Yes, I’m sure you’ll argue that BG2 is supposedly representative of 2e, but frankly, I don’t care (perhaps due in part to the fact that I’ve never played PnP). Like I said, you take this stuff a lot more seriously than I do. To me, it’s just a game, and I treat it accordingly.

See, that’s the point. I don’t see it as cheese. So call me dishonorable or cheap if you wish – it really doesn’t matter to me. Although I have to admit, it would be pretty pathetic of me if I somehow got some sense of honor over how I played a computer game, particularly at my age. At 46, I do it to have fun, not boost my ego. (I’m getting visions of the comic book guy from The Simpsons here. )

Y’know, the truth is, I rarely use it myself, and I don’t think I’ve ever used it for the purpose of simply preserving my spellcaster’s memorized spells. Not that I would have any problems with doing so – I just haven’t needed it so far.

OK, I see no point in flogging this anymore. It’s not really on topic, and I don’t want to risk incurring the wrath of Tal again (or any of the other mods, for that matter). We’re never going to see eye-to-eye on this (it’s kinda like debating abortion, or the existence of god ), because we have different requirements of what is needed to have an enjoyable gaming experience. I’ve said this in the past, and I’ll say it again – one of my favorite definitions of cheese goes something like this: It’s cheesy when I start to feel bad about it. So to me, everyone is entitled to their own standards. In what is essentially single-player computerized version of one of those numerous “make-believe” games I used to play as a child, I’m not going to get worked up over how other people play their own game.

/Splunge out