The usefullness of the Totemic Druid

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Here's the thing, doesn't the totemic druid basically make the normal druid obsolete? First of all, we have to look at what it's dissadvantages are. It can't shapeshift. Who cares? The only good shapeshift form is the stronger bear (black I believe) and even so that can get you about through the first few memphits in irenicus' dungeon. It's just not strong enough and attacks too slow to make any difference. Now the spirit animals. It summons one of four animals. All of these animals are basically stronger than the normal druid's shapeshifted form, and you can have 5 of them! Just pop em out before a battle and you can slaughter half of the stuff in SOA. After that, that is to say around chapter 6, they get less useful but they definitely are more useful than a normal druid's shapeshifted form. Once you get to TOB, the spirit animals can really own your retribution themselves, though about after that they start getting slaughtered. But all but one of them has over 90 hp, making 5 of them an excellent wall, and it's them dying, not you. One may argue that you can really get better AC on yourself when you shapeshift, but again, that's you, and unless your AC is -20, guys in TOB are gonna hit you all the time anyway. 5 of our spirit animals can really keep things away from you and actually HIT them (wow, big difference from your shapeshifted form) and once again if they die they aren't you, making it much easier to prepare and start fighting before everything is targeting you. So here's the question:
Am I missing something, or doesn't a Totemic Druid make a normal druid obsolete? Other than shapeshifting and spirit animals they're identical. Any ideas?

 

I totaly agree with you: normal shapeshifting is useless (a druid with good armor and weapon is a better fighter than any animal form) and the spirit animals are very good in SoA, and are useful meatshields in ToB.

 

Mid-SOA the shapeshifts are useless, so the Totemic is better and the spirit animals are cool. It's basically the same with all kits though. There is no reason to take a standard class unless multi/dual classing.

 

This says it all. The purpose of the standard classes without kits is for dual and multi-classing purposes only. I can't think of a legimate reason to take ANY straight class when a kit is available. Take a look below:

Cleric - No need to even comment here. All of the cleric kits give you two special abilities and take nothing away.

Fighter - The advantages of the beserker and kensai class are well documented, and both are better than a straight fighter. Wizard slayer is a decent kit too, although it can be argued that there aren't enough spell casters to justify taking one over a straight fighter.

Ranger - may be the one exception. Beast master simply doesn't do a whole hell of a lot for me. It's the one class where the advantages may not out-weigh the disadvantages. Although stalkers are great.

Paladin - may be the best example. Cavaliers essentially lose nothing. They can't use missile weapons, but the can use thrown weapons like daggers and axes, so essentially there's nothing lost. Undead Hunters trade Lay on Hands for some handy undead abilities - more than a fair trade. Inquisitors lose all spell casting ability in exchange for some super-powerful anti-mage abilities - again more than a fair trade.

Thieves - no point in even discussing. The only thing you really "lose" when you choose an Assassin or Bounty Hunter is thief points on level up, but if you're playing a straight thief, you'll quickly have more than you'll ever need. The exception of course is swashbuckler, which is more of a fighting thief that loses his backstab multiplier.

Bards - don't really lose anything except pickpocking ability, and lore. Both of these aren't major losses though, because even with one-half the normal lore total, you'll still have heaps more lore than anyone else, and even with a reduced pick-pocket percentage there are still potions of master thievery and, of course, thieves for the job.

Mages - although schools technically aren't kits, it's generally a good idea to lose a school to pick up an extra spell each level.

Druids - already been said

Barbarians, sorcerers and monks do not have kits.

 

You make some good points, but certain kits are too specialized, and specialist mages dont' make the mage obsolete because though they gain an extra spell they lose an entire spell school (or two). Cleric is blatantly made obsolete. It's helpful to have a theif with *too many* points because then eventually, by the end of TOB, you can basically have a theif that can do all abilities well or all abilities perfectly except for one or two, which may come in very handy. I think that paladins do lose something when they go to cavaliers because loss of missle weapons may effect the balance of your party, just because generally thrown weapons you need to be a bit closer (I believe) and for me, at least, never seem to hit as often. I agree that the kits do make the paladin pretty much pointless though. Ranger kits don't do it for the ranger, and I don't believe fighter kits do it for the fighter. While they all are high powered the loss of use of magic items sucks when being a wizard slayer, and is easier to just stay a plain fighter. Berserkers are very good, though their only specialization in ranged weapons, which many fighters can do better, is not so great. I believe that some of the classes become obsolete, but the ones right up front are definitely the druid, cleric, and probably paladin.

 

For me, I am not fantastically fond of the Fighter kits -- being a Berserker and not being able to specialize in ranged weapons sucks -- I like to have the choice to do a kick-butt job either hand to hand or at a distance. His rage isn't as good as a Barbarian's.

The Wizard Slayer is a really cool idea, and the magic resistance is handy, but not being able to use the really cool items sucks the big one, especially if you are honest about things and don't even let them use potions (I'm sure some of the mods out there fix that loophole.)

The Kensai has so many sweet benefits, but the lack of armor really cramps my style, and the fact that he can't use ranged weapons AT ALL is another problem related to the one I mentioned with the Berserker.

 

I'm trying out a totemic druid right now solo. I would have to say that he is by far the easiest class ever to solo through Irenicus dungeon. Those spirit animals rip through everything! So far he is great but I forsee him being the type of character that is super powerful in the beginning and sortof crappy at the end. But as for right now, well, 3 spirit animals and one cast of insect plague were more then enough to handle mencar pebblecrussher and company.

 

At the end he's a plain druid with a nice wall of animals

 

The question is, can a plain druid with a wall of animals solo through ToB, including Watcher's Keep?

 

Any class can solo BG2. How hard it is to do so is more the question, I think.

 

That's just asking can a plain druid with better defensive AND offensive capabilities solo through TOB. The answer? of course. Though it may be hard (ok, WILL be hard) the wall of animals doesn't hurt much.

 

@ GodRules

Well, technically, there are no mage kits, unless you want to count the wild mage. There are schools of magic, but that technically doesn't count as a kit. However, I wild mage definitely DOES make the straight mage obsolete. They get the bonus spells with no restrictions as to what spells they can learn.

Are you kidding? With a straight thief? That happens by mid-late SoA. In the game I just finished I had Jan in my party, and by early ToB he ALREADY had all of his skills at or above 100%. Seeing as how he is multi-classed, and is advancing at half the rate of a single-classed thief, a single-classed thief would max out all of his stats way earlier.

Now, I do admit that when I say all of his stats are at or above 100%, I mean they get that high when augmented with items. For example, Jan is always equipped with his goggles, gloves, ring of danger sense, ring of lock picking, and boots of stealth. These items probably give him over 100 points combined in various abilities. They save you points in disarming traps, lock picking, pickpocketing, moving silently and detecting illusions. If I'm setting a trap or in stealth, I will usually take off the ring of danger sense and replace it with the mercykiller ring (from bonus merchants).

Basically, if you make a single class thief, and even if you don't have the bonus merchants, you can still get almost all those items. The ring of danger sense, ring of lockpicking, and the boots of stealth are obviously still available to you. You can replace Jan's gloves with the gloves of pickpocketing. This doesn't even take into account armors like the Night's Gift or Shadow Armor that can raise your abilities further. The main point is by the time you have a thief to about 2 million XP - maybe 2.5 million tops, you already have everything maxed out if you're using the very easily accessible items. At that point, everything else you earn is wasted. And you obviously hit 2.5 million XP WAAAY beofre you hit ToB, even if you're using a 6 character party.

As far as Beserkers and Kensais not hitting with ranged weapons, I've never had that problem. I give Korgan the Dwarven Thrower, and he rocks the house with it.

 

Straight thieves do have too many points by the end of SoA, let alone ToB, but their one shining benefit is that they get TONS of good HLAs -- ones that can be re-selected, like the traps, the potion creation, the defensive tricks, etc. I like this a lot better than the HLAs clerics and mages get -- there are more slots than 10 level or quest spells -- what a waste! Given that I like spike traps, I like to load my thief up with lots of the things.

As for berserkers not hitting with ranged weapons, that's not quite what I meant, Aldeth old buddy. I would imagine that Korgan's 5 points in axes and hammers also applies to the ranged versions thereof. I was referring to crossbows and bows, and I'm sure he hits with them well enough too, given his high THACO, but the point is that mathematically, a berserker can't be as effective with them as a regular fighter who can slot in 2 or more points into bows.

I was also going to mention Ranger kits -- I like the Beastmaster from a roleplaying perspective, though not being able to use metal weapons is a big price to pay just to be able to summon animals.

Archers rock, but not being able to wear heavier armor and not being able to specialize in melee weapons makes one sit back and think for a moment -- really, what's the point in being skilled with the two-weapon style when your primary weapon is a two handed one AND you're not all that hot with melee weapons in the first place? Dumb design, if you ask me.

Stalkers are fun if you like that style of gameplay, but I'd rather use a full-blood thief to backstab. Plus, especially for my main character, I like to be able to wear as much armor as possible.

 

Oh, well if you're talking about things like bows, slings, and crossbows, then obviously, you're right. I just use thrown weapons to get around that little problem. I will say this though, even with only one proficiency point in a missile weapon, by the time you get to higher levels, it really doesn't matter. The THAC0s get so low for fighter types that you're basically hitting everything anyway. The other reason I go for things like axes and warhammers is fighters have high strengths, and the strength bonus is added to the damage.