Survival Horror – or another boring sorcerer spell list...

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Yes, another sorcerer spell list-thread. I bet everyone has missed those… The twist is that I plan to solo through BG1-TUTU, SoA and ToB on Insane without reloads. It’ll be the first time that I use Sword Coast Stratagems, so BG1 won’t be the breeze it used to be. While I don’t use the Tactics-mod in BG2, the Quest Pack AI and Ascension are installed to spice things up a bit. I have high hopes to reach at least mid or late SoA, but such overconfidence probably ends with death by the hands of a diseased gibberling...

All comments and advices regarding spell selection and order are more than welcome.


Level 1

My Choices:
1 – Magic Missile
1 – Shield: Provides ample protection in BG1, where even a single stray arrow can mean death. Retains a minimal use in BG2 due to the immunity against Magic Missile it grants.
3 – Protection from Petrification: Far from mandatory, but nice to have while fighting basilisks in BG1 for quick XP and beholders in BG2. Can be cast on summons.
5 – Protection from Evil: Quite useful at the beginning, but becomes almost completely redundant, when my sorcerer lays his greedy fingers on the Staff of the Magi. But can be cast on summons, too, so I’ll keep it.
7 – Chromatic Orb: A much weaker version of Finger of Death, deals minor damage with a very small chance to do something nasty. Very unreliable, but inflicts acid damage later on for troll slaying from a distance (therefore better than Burning Hands).

I considered:
- Identify/Friends: Both very convenient to have and save money, therefore no bad choices. But while every other level 1-spell I chose has at least a very small potential to save the sorcerer’s hide under certain circumstances, Identify and Friends don’t.
- Sleep: Totally rocks in BG1, but absolutely useless in BG2.
- Spook: Minor panic effect (which doesn’t seem to make the target completely helpless) with a short duration, but a saving throw penalty up to -6. Nice to have against strong single enemies like dragons. Would be usually in my spell list, but not in a no reload-game.


Level 2

My Choices:
4 – Invisibility: Simply a lifesaver in BG1 and early SoA. Not even completely useless with the Staff of the Magi, since Invisibility can be placed in a Contingency or cast while MMM are in use.
5 – Mirror Image
7 – Resist Fear
9 – Web
11 – Melf’s Acid Arrow

I considered:
- Knock: Since I’m not willing to part from one of these five spells for a magical door opener, I’ll have to get creative. In BG1 there are few locks that really need to be opened, in BG2 I will use Project Image with a Knock-scroll.
- Blur: -3 to AC may be interesting for a Fighter/Mage, but a Sorcerer’s place isn’t near the frontline. The bonus to saving throws is nice though, but not enough to choose this spell.
- Glitterdust: Party-friendly Mass Blindness that reveals invisible enemies who don’t make their save. Actually a favorite of mine when playing with a party, but here it’s not that important.


Level 3

My Choices:
6 – Melf’s Minute Meteors: While the meteors excel in the hands of a Blade or Fighter/Mage, they are still quite potent for a Sorcerer during the low and mid levels. Hits anything (even through Stoneskin) and deals solid damage, however I doubt MMM’s usefulness in the long run. Furthermore, a projected image can’t use them – and I really don’t want to read the line “Magical weapon in use”, when I need the Staff of the Magi in a crucial moment. But probably too useful initially to pass up.
7 – Haste: Used to make the summons a little bit more dangerous.
9 – Skull Trap
11 – Flame Arrow
22 – Remove Magic: Not very reliable due to the fact that it simply does nothing at all in a lot of cases. At least I had this feeling, when I still used Tactics. Without Tactics it could possibly be a better choice than Slow when reaching level 22.

I considered:
- Slow: Don’t get me wrong! I really like this spell. But getting it at level 22 seems rather pointless.


Level 4

My Choices:
8 – Spider Spawn
9 – Stoneskin
11 – Minor Spell Sequencer: Two extra spells may not seem crucial, but they can make the difference between life and death.
13 – Farsight
23 – Greater Malison: Lowering the saving throws of a group of enemies is always useful, but choosing GM not until character level 23 seems justifiable since I will use few save-or-else-spells.

I considered:
- Teleport Field: Interesting spell that shuts off close combat completely. No saving throw, not prevented by magic resistance. But TF creates a complete chaos on the battlefield...
- Polymorph Self: Only the magic resistant Mustard Jelly-form is interesting. If I am not mistaken, the Cloak of the Sewers should offer the same opportunity.
- Emotion: Hopelessness: Another favorite in my party-games, but without a penalty to the saving throws E:H is not reliable enough


Level 5

My Choices:
10 – Spell Immunity
11 – Breach
13 – Lower Resistance
15 – Animate Dead
28 – Sunfire: Bypasses magic resistance, therefore worthwhile.

I considered:
- Chaos: The -4-save penalty is potent, but I dislike the random effects of this spell.


Level 6

My Choices:
12 – Mislead
13 – Death Spell
15 – Contingency: Life insurance, when something completely unexpected happens. Will always be used in a defensive way (Invisibility, later Mislead or PfMW when HP < 50%).
21 – Protection from Magical Weapons: No decent sorcerer waids into melee, sure, but both enemies who can see through invisibility and getting ambushed are still problematic. PfMW provides 24 undisturbed seconds to solve the problem. And four rounds are more than enough to get nasty when playing a sorcerer...
30 – True Sight: A pity do get TS that late, but the other spells seem more important to me. In case the enemies go invisible, I can do the same or retreat and lure them out with summons.

I considered:
- Protection from Magical Energy: With Mirror Image, some magic resistance at the end of SoA, Shield against Magic Missile and Spell Immunity: Necromancy against Skull Trap and Horrid Wilting this spell seems like a waste of a precious level 6-slot.
- Chain Lightning: Decent party-friendly damage spell, but not important at all.


Level 7

My Choices:
14 – Project Image
15 – Mordenkainen’s Sword
17 – Spell Sequencer
21 – Mass Invisibility: Another good way to make the summons more durable.
31 – Delayed Blast Fireball: No great choice, but seems more trustworthy than Finger of Death.

I considered:
- Ruby Ray: Since the Tactics-mod isn’t installed, I assume that not every apprentice is protected by Spell Trap and Spell Immunity: Abjuration.
- Finger of Death: Nice but overrated save-or-else-spell. Far from important.


Level 8

My Choices:
16 – Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
17 – Spell Trigger
19 – Pierce Shield: Lowers the magic resistance of the few opponents who are immunue to Lower Resistance and removes Spelltrap. Since I didn’t include Ruby Ray of Reversal, PS is mandatory.
23 – Protection from Energy: I’m not really happy with that one. Grants +75% resistance to elemental and magic damage, but Mirror Image, Spell Immunity and keeping out of distance make this spell obsolete, I guess.

I considered:
- Power Word: Blind: This would have been my fourth choice, but I will use G3 BG2 Fixpack which corrected some of PW:B’s bugs. It isn’t party- and summon-friendly anymore and the spell duration is corrected to six rounds (instead of ten).
- Maze: Imprisonment’s little brother is an interesting way to isolate enemies. Has much more potential (and comical value) with a party, when the mazed enemy reappears in the middle of a bunch of Spike Traps...
- Incendiary Cloud: I’m not a big proponent of cloud spells, but this one doesn’t seem half bad to me, since I saw the first incarnation of Tactic’s Improved Irenicus getting incinerated by some of those.


Level 9

My Choices:
18 – Timestop
19 – Chain Contigency
20 – Imprisonment: All is fair in love, war and no reload-games...
25 – Wish

I considered:
- Shapeshift: Would be equally cheesy as Imprisonment, but not so effective.

[ August 26, 2006, 21:34: Message edited by: Ascendency-Down ]

 

I have a few questions concerning Sorcerer solos:

1. How do you survive at the lower levels?

2. How can ANY solo character beat Sarevok?

And one question regarding spell selection: what about Fireball? it might start to lag at later levels, but there's nearly no better low-level spell for clearing out weak foes. Burn, goblins, burn!

And Finger of Death becomes extremely formidable with Greater Malison, which i believe you have in your selection.

 

@ Clixby:

Survival at the low levels requires that you pick your enemies - or rather victims - carefully. This is may be cumbersome with a sorcerer using darts and a few Magic Missiles, but hunting monsters that are slower than you (e.g. bears, ghouls, ghasts, ettercaps and especially basiliks if you can protect yourself from their gaze) is an easy and safe way to reach at least level 6. Level 6 means having access to Melf's Minute Meteorites which help tremendously. It's imperative to avoid dangerous fights and especially large crowds of archers with Invisibility. When you reach level 8 and therefore Spider Spawn, you can sit back and let your hasted summons do the killing, while you toss a Web or two at the enemies. Oh, and the hidden Ring of Wizardry near the Friendly Arm Inn is of great help, too.

It's relatively easy to beat Sarevok with a sorcerer (compared to other classes), since you have own summons and are able use the Wand of Monster Summoning. Let him hack at your spiders and hobgoblins, while bombarding him with MMM. Thieves can for example backstab him repeatedly using Potions of Invisibility.

I agree with you that Fireball is better on low levels than Skull Trap, but not much better. However, on higher levels you won't even think about using Fireball instead of Skull Trap. The decision between Delayed Blast Fireball and Finger of Death is much harder and not really that important, because it will come very, very late in the game. Both spells are not really needed but convenient to have. I tend to favor DBF, since its effect is more reliable, while FoD often enough does nothing except a few points of damage to a single enemy. Moreover, DBF helps killing liches.

[ August 26, 2006, 23:13: Message edited by: Ascendency-Down ]

 

Quick levelling, taking on the enemies one at a time, and resting often. Add the Ring of Wizardry from just outside the FAI, and even a first-level sorc won't run out of spells too fast.

The same way most parties do: a big wall of summons. For a sorcerer with these spell choices, it looks like it'll be Spider Spawn and lots of Monster Summoning Wands.

Skull Trap does the same amount of damage, with no save, and is effective against fire-resistant enemies. The only downside is the shorter range.

One thing I would suggest is Death Fog over Death Spell. It kills summons just like Death Spell does, but it also does damage to non-summons. And if you cast from off-screen and can keep invisible while the cloud is active *coughSotMcough*, you can even inflict the full 80 damage over its duration.

 

I read somewhere about the blur spell being cumulative with itself. If this isn't corrected with the patches you could get perfect AC this way easily.

The cloak of the sewers doesn't offer the same protection as the "polymorph self" spell.

 

Sunfire doesn't bypass the enemy's magic resistance.

 

@ kmonster:
While I won't refrain from using cheap tactics and cheesy spells - and at least Project Image, Imprisonment and Mislead qualify without doubt -, I won't abuse blatant bugs. Besides, both Baldurdash and G3 Fixpack prevent this abuse.

The Cloak of the Sewers-transformation differs from the PS-Mustard Jelly-form? Didn't know that. It seems that Polymorph Self isn't as useless, as I had thought. Thanks for the info.


@ Felinoid:
Death Fog is an interesting proposal, as it is perfect for lich hunting, gets rid of enemy summons and inflicts acid damage over many rounds, but it has one big disadvantage: It kills own summons instantly, too. But having a cloud spell is no bad idea at all. I'm toying with the thought to get rid of Protection from Energy in favor of the mighty Incendiary Cloud.


@ Sikret:
Just tested it on a clean install (ToB-patch installed, no mods). I started a ToB-game with a sorcerer, summoned five Skeleton Warrios, cast Sunfire - and all of them got hurt.

 

Summoned Skeleton warriors have 90% magic resistance. You were really lucky to have damaged them all. The spell doesn't bypass magic resistance, as I said before.

 

@ Sikret:
In case Sunfire doesn't bypass MR, the probability to hit all five Skeleton Warriors with 90% MR was 0,001%. A second and a third try resulted in another five hits. Seems I'm a lucky fellow. Okay, seriously, I can't make any claims about your game, but in my patched and unmodded install Sunfire does indeed bypass MR.

[ August 27, 2006, 04:31: Message edited by: Ascendency-Down ]

 

Then, you are reporting a bug in your game.

Check the spell in a spell editor if you have one. If you read in the editor that the spell's damage effects bypass magic resistance, you have a confirmed bug in your game. Let me know and we will investigate the cause of the bug if it exists.

 

Perhaps it only bypasses on friendly summons. Try CLUAing in hostile Skeleton Warriors and see what it does then.

 

Hard to say if this a bug or developer intent in my opinion. A lot of spells (like Deafness, Strength, Contagion, Teleport Field, the damage from both Fireshields, Energy Drain, all protection removal spells, even Imprisonment) ignore magic resistance without indication in the spell describtion.

Here's an interesting thread that deals with this subject:
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/10/5284.html#000004

 

Sunfire indeed bypasses MR, so it is invaluable.

Haste is not a great pick for a sorc if you have a party, but if you insist on soloing I guess it is necessary to buff summons. But do not miss Slow. It is a very potent spell. Add it to contingencies and triggers, a GM+Chaos+Slow combo really disables enemies, confused spell casters automaticaly lose their spell casting, and melee enemies are hampered greatly, they will attack less and less accurate if they can even attack. And they should make a save vs spell at -8 penalty to avoid both spells, which will be hard for even the most magical adversaries. It also greatly slows down the regeneration rates of enemies, particularly trolls and some undead thingies, which is a nice enough bonus. It is really impossible to beat Improved Torgal without first slowing him down. Slow is one top quality spell, which I think every sorc should add to his arsenal.

 

Sunfire is different from the other spells you mentioned. The spell, as designed in the original game, doesn't (and shouldn't) bypass magic resistance. You can easily check this in a spell-editor (such as DLTCEP). Did you check it? I asked you to check it in a spell-editor if you have one.

 

Question for Sikret: Sunfire bypassing MR was a well-known exploit/advantage of the spell and has been known since I first joined these forums when the game came out. As others have said "it's always been that way," or at least it always was. Granted, I've been away for a few years now...(ahem, to the question) was a very late patch that I was absent for supposed to remove that error?

 

@ Silverstar:
Haste would be a bad pick when playing with a party, I agree, but it is very important in a solo-run. I'd really like to have Slow in the list, but what to remove? Skull Trap, Flame Arrow and Haste seem too useful to remove. MMM are really great in the beginning, but lose most usefulness the moment you start to (ab)use Project Image on level 14. Having a level 3-spell that excels between charakter level 6 and 13, but is almost pointless later on? Probably not a good choice. Or should I get rid of Remove Magic, a spell whose power I really can't evaluate? What do you propose? By the way, luckily I won't have to deal with Improved Torgal without Tactics.


@ Sikret:
I'm just an avid player who never used any kind of editor. If you really are convinced that this is a bug, I will believe you, even though the G3 Fixpack hasn't adressed it. Since I chose Sunfire just because it ignores MR, I will get rid of it and pick Chaos instead. As I said, I won't make use of bugs.

 

The point is that when I open the spell in a spell-editor, I read that the spell's damage effects do not bypass target's MR; so, there is really nothing in need of fixing as far as I can see. That's why I asked you to open the spell in an editor in *your* game.

 

Sunfire is an odd one. While it is reknowned for ignoring magic resistance (and has done so for me in the past), I've also found that magic resistance will sometimes work against it.

When soloing a monk I noticed that Sunfire bounced off my formidable magic resistance, yet when using it in a party it sometimes bypassed it.

Good luck with your solo Ascendency, let us know how far you get.

 

Started the game yesterday with all components from SCS that enhance difficulty (except the Harder Spiders-component since I assumed it would make my game rather less than more difficult) - and my PC is alive. Yet. After fetching the Ring of Wizardry and doing easy quests in and around Beregost, I gathered XP in Mutamin's Garden (AR3500) and Spider Wood (AR3000), until I reached level 8.

Equipped with Spider Spawn in my spell book I entered the Nashkel Mines which were swarming with kobolds more than ever. I'd say about twice as much as in the unmodded game. Didn't bother me much, because I went straight to Mulahey invisibly without slaying a single one of them. The half-orc priest went down easily under the onslaught of four hasted giant spiders.

The fight against Nimbul the Wordy was a bit more interesting, since he surprised me by dispelling my invisibility with Detect Invisibility. The targeting of the AI is much smarter with SCS: He tried to disable my spiders with spells, but subsequently started to attack my PC with Magic Missile and Horror, when two of three summons were unconscious. Didn't help him much due to Shield and Resist Fear.

I guess that was the point when I got a bit too convinced that I had everything under control. While marching with four hasted giant spiders into his room in Feldepost's Inn I forgot that Tranzig initiates conversation instead of waiting for me to do so (Or not... I would have set the spiders on him without introducing myself beforehand...). Assuming that I could still prepare more, I hadn't cast all protection spells, notably Invisibility - and he started casting. He managed to stop three spiders with a single Color Spray - and cast Dire Charm at my PC. Thanks to Protection from Evil and more than a bit of luck I made the save. A little lesson in humility...

I was much more cautious, when I raided Tazok's tent: After preparing with Shield, Mirror Image, Protection from Evil, Resist Fear, Invisibility, Haste and a Potion of Insulation I stormed in and plundered the chest disregarding the guardians (who were reinforced by Black Talon Elite). Instead of recasting Invisibility I relied on my superior speed and headed for the exit. This moment the mage hasted the whole crowd which followed me out of tent and chased me through the camp, before I could get rid of them. Tomorrow I'll make a little excursion to Cloakwood...

Oh, and I made another almost fatal mistake right at the beginning of the game. The sheer amount of enemies when getting ambushed can be brutal, especially while travelling to the outer regions. When I was on my way to the basilisk area the first time, I got ambushed by a large group of bandits: The PC (12 HP...) was placed in the center of a circle of six or seven bandit archers. By quaffing a Potion of Speed I managed to reach the area exit alive. Journeying to the more dangerous areas without being able to cast Invisibility was foolish. Casting Invisibility with its duration of 24 hours prior to travelling and resting makes both completely safe.


Current spell list:

Level 1:
- Magic Missile
- Shield
- Protection from Petrification
- Protection from Evil
- Chromatic Orb

Level 2:
- Invisibility
- Mirror Image
- Remove Fear

Level 3:
- Skull Trap
- Haste

Level 4
- Spider Spawn

 

What are the stats of your Sorcerer?

Sounds like you're doing well so far; I don't think I'd have survived this long if I was you. Whenever I make a Sorcerer, I have a tendency to just pick as many offensive and disabling spells as possible and completely blitz my foes while only having minimalist protection. Defense is fer wusses.