Powergamer question: What makes a Kensai/Mage dualclass better than Fighter/Mage MC?

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I really can't figure out what would make a K/M, with ToB installed better than a F/M multiclass.

Please enlighten me.

 

Well, for example, you can get grand mastery of weapons (MC gets only specialization). Also, kensai is better than vanilla fighter, as they get great bonuses.I'm not that familiar with Dual-Class, but those are some reasons.

 

You can't cast spells in armour. So you loose nothing switching. The kensais greatest weakness is the nakedeness. Stoneskin, mirror image, fireshield and Pro/mag weapon allows the kensai to tank very well and cast spell when needed, while the high AC fighter/mage have to do the one or the other.

 

You can also go with Multiclass Kensai/Mage, if you use Shadowkeeper(Hey, he said he's powergaming...)

 

By the way, do you know if a KM can use bracers? That would remove the AC problem quite well.

Other bonuses the kensai has as a base class - bonuses to damage and attack (the latter being quite useful), a little inherent AC bonus. You lose when it comes to ranged weapon options... There was an archer fighter kit in Tactics, it's another good option. Anyway, there are tons of spells useful for a tanking kensai - aside from the ones arawn mentioned, there is the armor tree, also blur, protection from missiles, haste, improved invisibility, spell immunity, the mantle treee and quite a few others. I've always wanted the BBoD with more attacks per round
Also, a dual-class F (or K)/M can get to a higher mage level faster than a multi-classer. It helps churning those high-level spells easier... A K-M with Improved Haste, absolute immumity, prot. from elements and Black Blade (I know, I like it) is something formidable, right?

[ July 12, 2005, 15:38: Message edited by: The Shaman ]

 

Kensai can't ever use bracers.

 

Actually, they can, Kensai/Thieves get Use Any Item

 

Well, that leaves the armor spells, then. The first one (AC set to 5) lasts for hours, and even the spirit armor lasts several turns. Another solution - available to the "normal" Kensai as well, is to get a barkskin from a fellow druid. With stoneskin, Mirror, blur and Fireshield for up close, and improved invisibility for arrows/spells, you can be quite something.
Hey, does the Kensai AC bonus stack with the mage armor spells? It is the weakest link in the comparison to the F-M, who can use elven chain and continue casting (the best EC has an AC of 0, and immunity to normal weapons). On the other hand, some of the robes a K-M can wear are also useful... Vecna, or Robe of the X archmagi.

 

Fighter-Mage (24/20(50/50cap removed)):
i) Better armor (0ac chain, and any other supplementary armor)
ii) Better Fighter (constant thac0 progression with gauntlets of extordinary specialisation - equal if not better number of attacks and thac0)
iii) Fighter HLA's (coupled with timestop you can power your way through any mob)
iv) Better looking (Bright green chain, woot!!)
v) Can use & progress all weapons to specialised.
vi) Constant mage progression (always have blur/mirror image/stoneskin)

Kensai(12)-Mage(28(50cap removed)):
i) Grandmastery in some weapons (extra 1/2 attack and 2 more damage)
ii) Weaker armor (5ac with robe of vecna, no helmet, shield, cloak or bracers)
iii) Weaker Fighter (+4 thac0 over fighter of same level, good early on but surpassed eventually. Also weak as a kitten when dualling to mage) (Can be compensated with tenser transform, but why bother locking off mage spells)
iv) Looks stupid (robe on a fighter = 'unarmored' = large lumbering fighter in pink shorts and vest)
v) Vunerable (Early game: no armor, no defensive spells. Mid game: Stuck trying to pull up their mage level to regain kensai abilities)
vi)....um sounds cool!?!?

Fighter/Mage is the dominant class, same positives and few of the negatives besides slow level progression (as with all multi-classes). Easier to keep alive, more powerful, simpler in a team or soloing.

 

Well if you go with cap removed, you'd dual at level 39, which will get you +13 to hit and damage. You would get only one HLA less than plain Fighter, too. As for armor, I think Spiritual Armor lasted 9 hours or so and set AC to 0. Also, all hail the Stoneskin.

So I'd say it all depends whether you want to use XP remover or not.

 

If you Dual CLass so late in levels with the cap removed then you miss most of the game as a Kensai-mage. You'll end up stuck as one or the other.

Fighter/Mage - Cleric/Ranger - Bard = best classes for straight play or powergaming. Forget Dualing, enjoy the uncertainty of multi-classing.

 

Big difference, IMHO between cheating and powergaming. I'm just trying to distinguish the differences between the two characters from a power perspective, is all.

I lean towards the multiclass myself, and think that a Gnome Ftr/Ill is even better than a Elf F/M. You get an extra spell per level, much better saving throws, and I'm not a big fan of any necromancy spells (the only exception is Horrid Wilting, but you really don't need that when you're half-fighter).

 

berserker/mage > f/m >>> kensai/mage

 

Aye? I remember a topic, from a couple year ago by someone I forget but is probably still lurking SP that gave undiscutable proof that in TOB multiclassing is superior to Dual classing. In SOA however it's another storry.

You might want to check the archives.

Try something like '' Dual classing vs Multi classing'' or something like that.

 

Simply put, they will both kill everything.

Out of curiosity... is it possible to do a dual class wizard slayer/mage?

 

Wizard slayer/wizard is a possible dual class if you haven't installed the refinements mod. The best thing about this combination is that any items restricted by the wizard slayer's kit that a mage can use are useable. This combo is probably more effective than the kensai/mage or even the fighter/mage against any enemy that frequently employs spells and/or inate abilities. The spell disruption ability can even stop a berserker from raging! I'd have to say that this is probably the cheesiest dual class combo in the game, though.

 

Just play multiplayer and use them both

 

IMO, the reason is because the classic Kensai-Mage (Kensai dualled at LvL 9-15) excels in Magery, and the addition of just a few high level spells slots - along with the innates of the Kensai - can, in the end, outweigh the benefit of access to all the fighter HLA's. Long story short, two spells: Projected Image; Wish. Also, despite the fact that F/M's have Greater Whirlwind, etc. the Kensai/Mage is not far behind in terms of dealing raw, physical damage.

The only advantage the Fighter-Mage has over the Kensai-Mage is that he's a lot tougher when both are stripped of their magical capabilities - which is not going to happen very often.

Wizard Slayer-Mages are powerful and scary little critters who deserve to be spike trapped to oblivion.

[ July 16, 2005, 02:52: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

With most battle improving mods i end up having my magic stripped every other round by an enemy mage. Hence prefering an f/m combination over bard, i'd rather be weakened than crippled.

I have trouble seeing the appeal of the WizardSlayer/Mage. Horendous thacO, no ring of gaxx, no bracers of extra spec, no belt of inertial barrier, no cloak of mirroring

 

Kensai/mage is better for SOA and fighter/mage is better for TOB as mention by someone above...
Kensai/mage is good for the early part of the game, as the bonus of the Kensai is good, but the bonus can't increase, so at the later part, the bonus is small compared to f/m. on the other hand, once u star to dual-class, u are back to a LV1 mage... quite weak unless u spent time to read all the scroll u can buy with no other npcs in your party to LV up faster... In my opinion, u will only be using your mage's abilities in the later part of the game...
F/m can wear some armour meant for f'm and bracer too. he can so choose the best HLAs of both classes. Both f's LV and m's LV are evenly LV-up, so you can build a versatile spellsword master. U can even train him with the skill of long-range weapons so if his hp is low and is out of spells, he can still give some range support.
IN short,
K/m= better mage, can have more powerful Tenser's transformation(if I remember correct, the spell become better as mage lv increases) to become mighty warrior.
F/m= better THACO(can incease some more with bracer), can have better AC due to f/m's armour.

[ July 16, 2005, 05:04: Message edited by: Skywind ]