Kensai - Mage questions

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For my player character, I am thinking of a Kensai / Mage. I will be playing from BG1 right through to ToB. As I remember it is not possible to multi class a Kensai - Mage, so dual classing is the only option. Which class is it best to start with? Will it be possible to dual to a kensai as it is a specific kit? And finally what level is best to dual at so I can gain maximum efficiency from both classes. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

No. You're only allowed to choose one kit, and that one is the first class you choose.

IIRC, 9, 12 and 13 are all good levels to dual class. The later you do that, more hit points you will have, and better THAC0. Level 13 also gives you extra attack, me thinks. If you want to be better fighter, dual at level 13. If you want to be better mage, dual at level 9.

 

Looking at bonuses, level 12 is the best time to dual from kensai to mage. You'll have;
+4 to hit and damage (+1 gained every 3 levels)
the flat -2 to AC
-3 to speed (-1 every 4 levels)
kai 3 times (usable once every 4 levels)
eight points toal for weapon profs (4 at 1st, +1 every three levels).
Going from BG1 though this means you don't dual until your a ways into BG2. You could dual earlier, at either a level divisable by three or four depending on what special abilities you desire more. 9 would get you one less in everything listed above, and means you go through BG1 as a Kensai then dual to mage at the start of BG2. You could go as low as level 6 and lose two from all the original abilities, and would mean you could get in 8 levels of mage prior to BG2.
One last note, fighters stop gaining hit dice after 9th level, and then merely gain 3 hp each level. So take that into consideration when deciding when to dual.

 

Level 12 is crap for dualclassing. You gain more when levelling up your kensai from 12 to 13 than from 9 to 12.
But even if you dual at level 9 you'll play most of the time as pure fighter and only some time a kensai/mage, chances are that you'll even be bored from the game and stop playing before you ever gained the first mage level.
I recommend playing a fighter/illusionist instead, so you can both fight and cast the whole time, the specialisation grants an extra spell per level. And at the end you'll even gain access to fighter HLAs unlike the dualclassed version.

Do you plan to play BG1 in it's original form or are you using TuTu ?

 

What will I gain going from 12 to 13?

TuTu.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

You gain a half attack per round at level 13. The only reason to dual at 12 is not understanding the rules.

 

If you're playing Tutu you can dual at level 7. It's not as powerful but that way you will have a mage before starting BG2 SoA and the Kensai class won't be inactive too long.

 

You also gain a saving throw improvement from level 12 to 13.

 

I forgot about the extra half attack at 13, along with the saves, i should have checked my 2nd ed players handbook rather than the SOA manual on that one.

 

Okay so it looks like level 13 is the best time to dual. I'm taking long sword through BG tutu then I'll probably switch to Katana at the start of SoA. Do you guys recommend 5 points in Katana then whatever's left in single weapon profficieny for the improved AC or dual wielding?

 

If you have the bonus merchants dual wielding can be very good (Deirdre sells a katana that is awesome for a mage) I think there is a katana somewhere giving some extra AC as well (offhand weapons are very useful for extra immunities or abilities; getting one extra attack is not that great if you think about the advantages you could get with ++ in Two handed weapon or ++ in Single weapon).
Single weapon is a good thing if your AC is too high though (I don't like Kensai for that reason).
If you go to level 13 you should be able to take both.
Unless you want to use katanas only stop at +++ (+++++ don't yield that much IMO) but if you want your character to be the ultimate katana wielder then go all the way (and remember to use Tenser's transformation).

 

I'm playing a game with three party members total, all created by me. charname is a kensai/mage/thief.

I like the idea cos it suits the god of murder thing - he's an assassin trained in fighting who also uses magic to further enhance his abilities. dual wields katanas, cf and dakkons zerth blade.

he wears the robe of vecna, so after a backstab he casts invisibility on himself (the standard level 2 version) and backstabs again. its hiding in plain sight.

 

Use the style you like most RP-wise. Everything is playable.

Dualwielding does the most damage. With belm or kundane in your off-hand you get an extra attack per round with your main hand.
You don't need to be proficient in your off-hand and the 3rd star in dualwielding isn't neccessary either.

For ToB katanas are quite weak compared to other weapons like "flail of ages +5" or "axe of the unyielding +5", so I don't think more than 2 points in katanas is neccessary.

The disadvantadge with dualwielding is that you can't switch to thrown weapon easily, the throwing dagger +3 firetooth is the most damaging weapon you get in SoA and throwing axes aren't bad either.

The extra AC for single weapon style won't make a difference in ToB.

I'd rather think about weapon profs in BG1 now. You don't get enough profiency points to be able to take everything useful.

 

Grand mastery in the original game is horribly nerfed, and does not really give much bonuses. For balance issues, I think. You can get the GM fix, and if you do, spending 5 proficiencies in any given weapon is WELL worth it! Otherwise, even specialisation is enough.

I like dual-wielding, get a weapon which grants you special abilities, use this weapon for your off-hand, and have a weapon which does nasty things (elemental damage, slow, life/level drain, vorpal, etc.) upon hit to your main hand:because you will have more attacks with your main hand.

A high level kensai, GM in katanas, dual-wielding them, and improved hasted:he has 9 attacks/round:making GWW obsolete, so I went for critical strike! 9 attacks, all critical strikes with the damage bonus of true GM and high level kensainess....

 

Thanks guys. I think I'll take grand mastery in katana and everything else into dual wield. I hope it doesnt take me too long to reach level 14 Mage. After I unlock kensai again I'll probably dual wield celestial fury and dekkons zerth blade.

 

There are far and away more magical longswords in the BG games than any other type of weapon. Don't worry about proficiency in the off-hand weapon until you've got spare proficiencies, it only attacks once per round.

Although slightly different, in my current game I'm using a multiclass fighter/mage with 5* in quarterstaff and 2* in 2Handed weapons. He's currently level 14/14, and has 7 attacks every 2 rounds normally, 7 attacks per round when under the influence of improved haste. All his proficiencies from now on are 'spare'. What's the point of this example? To show that dual-wielding's not all about getting more attacks per round, it'll only give 1 (or 2 with certain weapons) extra per round, it's about the benefits from having weapons equipped - Crom Feyr for 25 Str, Derth Blade for extra spells, etc.

 

I usually place 3 points in dual wielding before any specific weapon. Thats just so your off hand doesnt get too bad a penalty.

But it has been pointed out that you will only ever get one attack per round with your off hand weapon, so maybe the extra point isnt necessary. I suppose I like to make every hit count.

 

Hmm I just realised that one of the main benefits from Kensai is that they keep gaining bonuses right upto maximum level unlike other fighter kits. With that in mind will I be 'selling myself short' by dualing at level 13? Is having a few mage spells better than the combat bonuses and HLA I would get without dualling? Or will the added dimension of being able to use magic turn my Kensai into one nasty bitch?

 

Having magic at your disposal can really help. Remember that Kensais wont gain many more hitpoints after level 10, and their thac0 progression stops at level 20. Oh and the bonus to hit and damage slows after level 18.

Will you be shortchanging yourself? Dunno, magic and fighting can be devastating together. Stuff like stoneskin, fireshield, improved haste, tensors transformation, even ghost armor (to compensate for the fact you cant wear armor) can really help a fighter. The character can do more than just fight - they can do long range bombardment and up close and personal. Oh in timestop you can hack stuff to bits and their isnt much it can do. Or you can use spells like regular mages do.

 

at 13 you also gain +1 to hit and damage, it's +1 every 3 levels starting at 1, so 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, not 3, 6, 9, 12... iirc .

same thing with the half attack right?

1, 5, 9, 13.