POLL: Flail of Ages +3 or Celestial Fury +3?

Remove all ads!

Thanks dmc,

I had the feeling I was taking the wrong turn while I was writing. Now I know for sure I did.

 

Quick Q: Does slow and stun stack together?

(I want to know if it would be worth it to dual-wield the CF (Main) and FoA (second))

 

I guess they will stack but as dmc pointed out the probabillity of scoring a special effect hit highly depends on your number of attacks with that weapon. Since you only attack once per round with your off-hand putting either Fury or Ages there seems like a waste.

 

Exactly what KaraBenNemsi said.
The off hand weapon is typically there to bestow you with some kind of protection or to give your main weapon another attack/round.

OTOH there are some classes that have very few attacks with the main weapon, so for those characters the off hand weapon can actually be useful offensively.

 

@dmc

It's been a number of years since my last statistics course. So sadly, I do not understand why you have to calculate the chance of not slowing and then take the remainder as the chance of slowing.

NOTE: I'm not saying dmc is wrong - he is most certainly correct, I'm just trying to figure out where I went wrong here.

To wit: Your calculation seems correct. If you need two separate events to occur (in this case NOT stunning your opponent) you calculate the chance of success by multiplying the two numbers. So your 5/9 chance of slowing seems correct.

However, I also remember learning that when you need one of multiple possible events to occur, that you calculate the possibility by adding the chances together. In this case 1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3. Now, I look at my reasoning and I realize that I'm completely wrong, because in a case where you had 4 or more attacks per round, the chances of stunning your opponent would exceed 100%, which is both impossible and just intuitively wrong.

Is the rule only good for a set number of outcomes within a single, fixed event? (In such a case it wouldn't work because each atatck would be considered an independent event, which seems highly probable. It wouldn't make sense if prior results influenced the chance of the slow effect occurring.)

 

It's quite obvious really
There are only two possible outcomes...the opponent is stunned, or not stunned. The total probability is one hundred percent that one of these will occur. So if you work out the probability of one occurring, 100-P is the probability the other will happen.

The adding thing works like this- if you work out the probability of each way the even can occur, you add them. For example, for the stunning:
Two attacks per round-
Stuns first, misses second- 1/3 * 2/3 = 2/9
Stuns both- 1/3 *1/3 = 1/9
Misses first, stuns second- 2/3 *1/3 = 2/9

Add them all together, you have 5/9

 

x=chance to slow
y=number of attacks
z=chance target is slowed

x^y=z

This is considering you hit every time. If you take thac0 in it will be a bit more complicated

 

Advanced, that can't be right, as the more attacks you have the less chance of slowing that formula gives you.

Chance of slowing = 33% or 1/3

One attack: 1/3^1 = 1/3
Two attacks 1/3^2 =1/9
Three attacks: 1/3^3=1/27

That's only the chance of slowing them on every attack, which is not necessary.

 

Still, the CF has two more extras - the lightning strike (A bit like a fireball, wasn't it? I haven't played BG II recently) and the blindness. While not the very best about it, they can prove in handy.

 

i must go for CF myself, it's just waay cooler. and another thing DO NOT dual wield anything that doesent give an extra attack.

CF+Belm/or that monk sword(extra merchant) on an assasin is insane, soloed with this a couple of times, THE best combo of 'em all

 

I disagree, Balle. I think that an off-hand weapon generally isn't worth it if it's just there for an extra attack, but there are plenty of bonuses besides just "an extra attack."

Most notably from these is the 25 STR from Crom Faeyr, but something that confers protections (elemental, physical, negative plane, ect.) will work great too.

 

I agree in principle, Klorox. But bear in mind that these weapons in the off-hand give an additional attack with the main hand as well as the off-hand. Equipping CF and Belm for a fighter with 2 attacks means they will actually have 4: 3 with CF in the main hand, and one with Belm in the off. Unless your enemy requires a particular protection (ie: level-draining, elemental resistance, etc) you are generally better off with Belm or the Scarlet Ninja-to, especially with a weapon as lethal as Celestial Fury or the Flail of Ages.

 

Do your 4 attacks (including the bonus one) upgrade to 8 with the improved haste from the spell / Gauntlets of Blinding strike?

 

Not sure, Shaman - I would assume so, since Imp. Haste doubles your number of attacks, which is set to 4 at the time of casting. Anyone willing to field that one more authoritatively?

 

it does improve to eight


and a comment to the comment on my comment.

i am very well aware of this, but in lelvels(15+) if you dual wield it is highly unlikely that a vampire will hit you, that is my experience.
nevertheless, if you need other weapons.... it takes about 2 seconds to switch

 

What the hell is this? A discussion about weapons in a computer game, or a math class?

And, since no one seemed to mention it earlier, FoA +3 does not have 33% chance to slow. FoA +4 & +5 have that. +3 is probably more like 15%, although it doesn't say exactly.

My vote is for Celestial Fury. Slow sucks. Stun is the money-shot.

 

Yes but as said by Tassadar earlyer...Trolls, CF does not stand a chance in a one on one fight with a troll, you could beat it senseless, yes, but it would just keep on rising.

(Ah yes it could be used to backstab, i though they would fix that mistake, never the less it still sucks at backstabbing (Staff of the Ram+6))

 

Well, since people were talking about it, I took a look at the items. Personally I voted for FoA, it's an old favorite even if I do like CF. One thing to look at is the time difference in the abilities - CF's stun ability lasts for 6 seconds, has a 100 percent probability of occuring but can be saved vs spells; FoA's slow ability lasts for 20 seconds, has a 33 percent probability of occuring but cannot be saved against.
As people were mentioning before, I just duel-wield them, almost every game I play. They are really deadly together, esspecially with both upgraded. CF + FoA + GWW + Improved Haste = Fun Time.
Ofcourse.. there is always the fact that some monsters are immune to slow and/or stun, not too many, but there are points when I just want to beat my head against a wall when I forget some monster's resistance and a mage gets mauled. (Yeah, I get clumsy with character placement a lot)

 

Equipping Celestial Fury and Crom Faeyr for a fighter with 2 attacks will only increase the number of attacks to 3, but each will be made at +7 to hit, + 14 to damage.

Now, it all depends on the Fighter's original strength, but there's a good chance that the extra damage from a 25 strength outweighs the extra attack.

Minsc, for example (the strongest NPC before ToB), gets +5 to damage naturally. Let's do a little breakdown of damage with these weapons, assuming all of the attacks hit the target (something that is improved with Crom Faeyr in the offhand as well):

Maximum damage in 1 round with Minsc (assuming 2 attacks per round) with Celestial Fury and Belm is: 64 (39 from Celestial Fury, 10 from Belm, 15 from STR bonus).

Maximum damage in 1 round with Minsc (assuming 2 attacks per round) with Celestial Fury and Crom Faeyr is: 79 (26 from Celestial Fury, 11 from Crom Faeyr, +42 from STR bonus).

Another way to look at things is the to see which has the highest minimum damage per round (assuming ll attacks hit).

Using the above parameters, Minsc scores a minimum of 30 points with CF and Belm (12 from Celestial Fury, 3 from Belm, 15 from STR).

Minsc scored a wopping minimum of 43 with Celestial Fury and Crom Faeyr (12 from Celestial Fury, 5 from Crom Faeyr, 42 from STR).

I think a strong argument can be made that additional attacks are outweighed by a huge strength bonus.