Stupid Thief Question

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A level 12 with say 90 hp switched to level 1 abilities does fit well into say a party with say level 4-6 characters though. Yes he would have higher hitpoints but he would also have lesser abilities to counteract it until he caught back up with the dual classing.

 

I was just wondering, have a lot of people played throughout BG without backstabbing? Seriously, I don't know how people do it!

Btw, just something I'd like to know, can thieves backstab with the Staff of the Ram?

 

@Felinoid: Actually, getting HLA's at an earlier level doesn't make that much of a difference unless you've removed the experience cap. A F/M/T will get a couple more HLA's than a rogue but the only reason for that is that rogues reach their max level really early. Then again,pure and dual class rogues benefit from more hitpoints, better thieving skills, kits.......

 

I go through it without backstabbing alot. It's not really that hard usually.

 

To the people that don't backstab much, what other tactics do you people use to get through the game?!!

 

I tend to use a combination of spells and straight combat. Look for things that I haven't been thinking of in hard fights. Often something simple like remove fear or something has been massively helpful in some of the mage fights.

I try to spread out my AC and not just put it on a couple.

And I tend to use a healthy mix of spells and straight combat. if I'm going into something that I can soften the enemies up with some good spells then I do. I know it's taking some advantage of the scripting but sometimes I just take advantage of the area To pin them into an area affect that lasts several rounds.

Though I must admit that I have to hang my head in shame that I take advantage of most of the dragons by Lower REsistancing them a couple times. backing out of sight and pounding the area with just absolutely as many multiple round damage spells as my party is capable of that will actually hurt them.

I also tend to use multiple mages so I am prone to having both my spell casters strip protections from the better protected mages and liches in a single round or short successive rounds by having the fast one cast something like Ruby Ray or something when necessary. The other one doing things like breach or khelben's warding whip if they are necessary.

However if it was possible to cast spell immunity on others then I'd be prone to doing a nasty little dispel and spell immunity abjuration on them so that they can't cast things like protection from magic weapons on themselves.

 

I guess that would work throughout the game but one question, do you not like to backstab because you don't really enjoy it, or just because of a lack of experience with it?

 

I hardly ever backstab either. There aren't many situations where I think its useful, and its also dangerous. Your thief or stalker may score big against one enemy, but then is left alone amidst others until the cavalry arrives. I realize that potions of invis. or a ring of air control would solve the post-stab vulnerability problem, but that's yet another call on my cash, and it never seems worth it.

Then there's the question of who is going to be doing the stabbing. None of the NPCs is especially suited to it, with the exception of Valygar, and I hardly ever use him. Yoshi is ok, I suppose, but pre-spellhold there are few suitable enemies, and his thac0, number of attacks with a melee weapon, and poor post-stab defences mean he isn't really good at it. So unless you want to play a thief, you may not have a backstabber at all.

There never seems to be any reason to play a thief, as the game doesn't require much thieving skill...

 

I guess people that have never really played as a pure or even multi or dual thief have never seen the advanges of backstabbing. And yes, I'll back you up there Truper, there's not many good characters (in either game) that are good for backstabbing. Once you play as a thief, Fighter/Thief in particular, then you'll understand what people are talking about!

 

Plus for a dual class, the Swashbuckler kit is interesting if only to add some AC and figthing bonuses to a Cleric or a Mage.
Nevertheless Assassins are awesome (when no Barbarians are around).

 

Meh, Swashbucklers mean no backstabbing ... eww! One question: I've never dualed a thief kit to a mage or cleric before, exactly how do the abilites get retained after they can use both classes freely? This really shows how much I know huh!

 

Swashbucklers do not backstab but the kit confer some nice bonuses to a Mage or Cleric (especially Cleric since you won't be backstabbing with Crom Fayr).
When you dual class you should always choose a kit... that's all the point of dualclassing otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all (compared to multiclassing).

 

Like i mentioned above, I don't really remember doing much dual-classing. I think it did it once, maybe twice ... and that's IT! Would anyone be able to post some examples of say, a few thief kits to a mage or cleric? Sorry were here.

 

That's my thing. No real good thieves. Jansen can get there if you work on him but he's been more valuable to me as a lock pick and secondary or even possible third mage type in a party giving me a truely devestating ammount of damage I can cast on somebody like if you pop up carefully just far enough that you see them and they don't yet react. Creep your mages up just behind your first character. Usually that's distance enough then have all three unleash a good spell at the same time. I've wiped entire groups of things out that way and seriously weakened other groups.

it's how i first managed to beat that adventuring group in the sewers that demands that you pay them.

My one time as a thief because I just haven't ended up drawn to them much has been a swashbuckler. they work more like a fighter that can sneak but can't wear the heaviest armor. Which I can work with.

 

Can't really see the point with backstabbing... The life expectancy for a thief alone in the middle of a big fight with 10 enemies is a lot shorter than what I like..

 

That's why you have to adapt a strategy or two on how to keep him alive during the big hit!

(1) You could activate a ring of invisibility as soon as you've done the deed, after inflicting some serious damage, and then make your way around the back of some other unsuspecting fool and do it again! Or, you could just sneak away like you said if your thief is low on hit points.

(2) You could haste him so that he could do the job and retreat quickly without nary a scrath on him (a few missiles maybe ...) and just in case he had been targeted with any spells you could retreat quickly enough to hide in shadows again and thus make the spell unable to succeed.

(3) And you know, if you have a few tanks or so in your party you could just use them to rush the enemy (summoned fodder too if you'd prefer) and then while they are distracted, your thief could walk in, cripple or even kill someone, and then prance on outa there without anyone even stopping to say hello!

And those are just the basic ones! Backstabbing is really an awesome tool in BG, you just have to learn exactly how to use it. Yes, it may take a little while to getting used to if you're not really a big fan of it, but once you get into the habit of micro-managing your thief, you should be alright!

 

Just an update...I never DID try a backstab with my last run through, but with my F/T this time...hoo, boy! NOW I know what you guys are talking about! Backstabbing ROCKS! I'm dishing out 100+ points of damage right and left! And I just got the Assasination HLA! Does that stack with GWW? If so, I'm going to cut my party loose and take on Irenicus all by myself! I'm invincible!!!

 

Err, it does not stack with GWW. As they both last for 1 round and you can activate 1 HLA/round.

But do thisual-wield two nasty thief weapons, get improved hasted, this way you will have a good # of attacks, then switch to Assasinate and you will be rewarded by a shower of flying blood and guts of your enemies!

Have fun!

 

Yeah, I figured that out when I tried to take down Bodhi that way. That SUCKS! I wanted to be invincible!!!

Christ, it's 4:30 AM! Suldanesselar will have to hang on another day. Good night, folks, I'm off to bed!