So called 'invalid' classes

Remove all ads!

Unfortunately BG-2 dosn't allow flexible class combinations in a way 3e or a good dungenmaster does - there are various race-/ class restrictions in the game and after playing the game a few times I got bored and decided it was time for a change.

So I built my own chars to allow theme parties. My first custom char was my halfling cavalier Sir Donaldus - I created him in BG-1, convertd him to halfling race and gave him the proper avatar (fighter male halfling). I played him through BG-1 and then put him to BG-2 SoA and ToB (followed by Sir Camaris and Sir Galahad); he was great fun to play - despite the lack of a romance with Mazzy

My theme parties (I would have made a story about them but I haven't even finished Sir Donaldus' tale due to lack of time .... )

As a contrast to my goody parties before I created a party of four evil halflings:
-halfling kensai (grandmastery in shortswords , later adding maces and flails with * each, and like dualwielding )
-halfling assassin (pretty good, but somewhat lacking thieving abilities)
-halfling skald (very useful, his song adds the AC my kensai needed sometimes)
-halfling conjurer (not as good as edwin but halfling and she shuts up)
-short appearance of guest stars like Korgan, Viconia and Edwin

After playing them I wanted an all goody 4 halfling party:
-halfling cavalier (the imo ultimate melee char - *without* Carsomyr)
-halfling archer with shortbows (crossbows would have been too powerful)
-halfling mc swashbuckler-mage (great: with elven chain, single weapon style, ring of protection +2, bracs of AC 3 she iirc has an AC of -9/ no backstabbing - would have conflicted with my cavaliers views on chivalry/ no melee strength/ restricted spellcasting/ excellent thieving abilities - and in ToB high level abilities as well)
-Mazzy (great for she has excellent ranged weapon qualities and a very good melee punch, yes, even with a puny shortsword - she is more flexible than my archer and can functiona s a second melee frontliner at need)
-Guest stars: Jaheira for romance (she'll suffer an unfortunatel deat after finishing her romance ), Imoen (a cavalier would never leave her down there), maybe Keldorn for a short while - I want my core team to level up quick, and 4 chars are more difficult to play through some areas.

So generally - anyone else who likes to modify his chars? Why do you do so and what are your fav class/ race combinations and for which reasons ?

 

Why do I love him?
Easy: because he removes racial limits - instead of lame creating godlike characters with all stats 25.

Anyway, I don't use rules modifications, I always stick to half-elves and never play as paladin so I don't need it. Maybe I should... Nah. Not on d&d.

 

Come on Extremist, you know that I not just talked about changing race and avatar:

When I have a str-18/48 original human pally in BG-1 and want to turn him into a halfling I have to *readjust* his stats (usually I take care of this when rolling a car) : Means to correct his str to 17 while putting the str-point elsewhere, maybe on int. I also take care to consider the other halfling race limitations: max wis-17 and min int of 6 ...

Breaking race class limits does not mean to ignore racial ability limits. This thread is not about freaks that create their godlike all-25 chars

 

I have been wondering why som races cant be specific classes. Ok if they would get penalties cayse maybe dwarfs dont get in touch with magic much but it is kind of stupid. But Ragusas doesnt care about rules! Way to go

 

Hi,

I agree with you on this one Ragusa. The racial restrictions on character classes have always annoyed me on PNP DND. BG is the same since it is a very close copy of 2nd Ed DND rules, they just incorporated some minor alerations when they transferred the rules to a CRPG. They had to stay very close to keep the TSR logo.

As a DM I always allow some latitude with this.

The one I would break most often was the crazy level limit placed on non human characters. Try explaining in a rational way that an elf who can live for 1500 years will only ever be able to reach a maximum of 12 lvl or whatever in a particular class. You can use arguments like time passing differently for longevity creatures etc, but in the end you throw it out.

However, some of the racial restrictions are there for good reasons as I see them in PNP:

1. The benefits some of the non human characters have can result in very unbalanced parties especially at low levels, if you are not careful and this doesn't always yield a good collective game playing experience. Halfings get such good saving throws that if you allowed a paladin and also allowed unlimited level then that character would hardly ever fail a saving throw by the time they reached lvl 10, you have to allow the DM some fun!

2. You can end up with a party of all one race if you open things up too widely. Not necessarily a bad thing but some of the best games I have played or DM'ed have always involved a mix of races.

Minor points that only apply to PNP and these are easily controlled in lots of otehr ways. BG opened up the lvl rules, they should have been a bit more free and easy with the race/class restrictions.

I am glad that 3rd ED PNP threw out this stuff, shame they put in some other stuff I don't agree with, but hey the DM can always sort that out.

Try this for a kensai if you like to fiddle.

Mage to lvl 4 then dual to kensai. I am having a blast with mine.

You could even change his race to halfing!

Cheers,

WittyNewt

 

I like things like

• Elven Druids:- It makes perfect sense.
• Dwarven Mages:- Although in a rubbish school and low Int (Quite a decent Game actually)
• Gnomish Palidins:- Was gunna post but Ragusa got thier first

Entertaining

 

I have a party I made yesterday with

-a half-elven Cavalear

-an elven neutral good druid

-a halfling sorcerer

-a halforc fighter theif (nothing special about that. I'm just putting down my hole party)

-a Gnomeish barbarian

-and a dwarven monk

 

ive always wanted to make a goblin fighter/thief =)

 

Halfing cavaliers? How'd you do that? TEEELLLLL MMMMMEEEEEE! I've been wanting to make elven paladin types since I've got this game!

 

Spoiler:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
If you got SK, you could do that...

[This message has been edited by Laksol (edited November 11, 2001).]

 

Wittynewt, though I mainly created my halfling cavalier as a consequent approach of Mazzy's problem (she wants to be a palading but wasn't allowed to) I cheerfully accepted the st-advantages of my creation.

Anyway - a pure dwarven fighter of the same level (given he has a full plate and a ring of protection +2) offers a better punch (grandmastery, quicker level advancement) with about the same robustness and better strength.

So, when breaking race-class restrictions of 2e/ BG-rules, I don't mainly do it for the punch of my char but for roleplaying reasons.

 

What I want to see ids more multiclasses. A Ranger/Cleric/Mage would be nice (Could cast all spells). I don't know why I never got down to creating my Half Orc Monk.

 

Hi Ragusa,

Yep, its your game, I said that my suggested restrictions only apply to PNP DND.

Its your game, you are both the DM and player so I think you should be able to have a halfing cavalier if you want.

I agree with you. They should have made Mazzy a proper paladin, I am sure halfings have gods (probably quite short ones! )

Afterall, they created an impossible (for player to get) mage in Edwin.

Cheers,

WittyNewt.

 

Indeed, in a CRPGs everybody is his own dungeonmaster - this includes the risc fo ruin the own gameplay by creating massively overpowered chars Or items).

I think I found a proper ballance for my chars, they still are quite mortal, have some weaknesses I have to take care of and are hairy enough to play vs strong creatures to be challenging.

But actually I think that, when starting to customize the game, *some* fundamental (self-) restrictions are unavoidable and necessary:

For me the race stat-restrictions *do* make sense! Just compare a halfling to a half-orc - the latter one is bigger and stronger - a str-19 halfling is unacceptable for me ... unless he's been played through BG-1 and BG-2 SoA/ ToB so he have earned the stat increases by fighting for them. I dislike the way stat increases work in BG-1/ 2:
When you have a str-18 char and get the tome of strength and str is increased by one you get srt-19 instead of (like with some items in IWD) str-18/01 to 18/50 ... unfortunately another flaw in the game ...

For me, overpowered items like crom, carsomyr, shield of Balduran or the *über-staff* for example or maybe even stronger custom items (I found a ring somewhere (it was made for BG-1) that *quads* your total number of mage spells ... making Edwins *so* desired amulet look like a child's toy ... ) can easily take fun out of your game.

Finally, I'd die bored when I would use the killsword on an all-25 stat char. You must be pretty poor a player to need that.

 

Hi,

Well everyone is different, if they want to ruin the game in our eyes, let them, it might make it more enjoyment for them personally. As long as they don't do it multiplayer I don't care.
(one of the reasons I gave up counterstrike 5 months ago was the level of cheating!)

Yes, the stat vs race matrix makes sense, it also adds a nice bit of diversity to races that would otherwise be missing. The 19 dex possibility on elves and halfings really does make you choose them as theives and missile specialists and likewise the extra strength for half orcs for a fighter (I just can't bring myself to play one though! )

The strength should have moved the character up one strength band if they already had exceptional strength rather than the 18-19 transition. More difficult to implement though since only fighter characters have access to exceptional strength as currently implemented.

Never found the ring you mnetioned in BG1 and I have been through it about six times now. Got some wizardry rings and the holiness ring (I wish that was in BG2 but I couldn't find it first time through and I was very thorough)

I think the "big" weapons you mention do have a time and a place though. Carsomyr makes a nice quest if you are playing a paladin sort and if I were to solo, Crom or the staff of magi would just make things that little bit easier and limit the number of reloads and reduce the fights to minutes rather than hours!

Soling has never appealed to me much though. Its the npc interactions and other associated role playing depth etc that I play for rather than the goal of "beating the game". Sounds like we are quite alike in that respect.

Cheers,

WittyNewt

 

Ragusa, great idea! The halfling conjurer will rule I hope you'll tell us how your party is acting. I already encountered that parties of 4 are great. 1 hint, don't go for flails and mages with your Kensai. When you make characters like in 3rd edition, also use small weapons for your small creatures only! Killing Irenicus with a Kensai with 2 Short Swords.... would be awesome! You have all support from me and from the Shadowcouncil

 

Wittynewt,
That ring is a custom item I downloaded from a BG-1 customization site .... not worth to search for it since it conflicts with the BG-2 spellbook. I once tried it on my mc fighter-mage in BG-2 and it was pretty lame.

Marnix,
thanks for your support I just stopped to play evil for I'd liked play my four goodies to approx the same point, so I can compare both.
As for my weapon choices:

I. The four nasties:
-Halfling Kensai: ***** in shortswords, ** in single weapon style, * in maces, rest either in daggers or two-weapon style (dunno yet - but IMO the silly AC suggests to maximize the punch in terms of numbers of attack)
-halfling skald: * in shortbows, longswords, maces and single weapon style
-halfling conjurer: * in daggers, slong and darts.
-halfling assassin: * in daggers, crossbows, scimitars, longswords (longest weapon I accept for a shorty) and single weapon style.

II. The four goodies:
-My halfling cavalier only uses one-handed weapons in single weapon style - no shield (comes close to using them two-handed - the AC bonus would then be for the size ): He has ** in longswords, flails (dangerous werapon since it can sweep an enmy offhis fees when used in knee-height) and single weapon style.
-My halfling archer uses shortbow and shortswords, I recently added a spear dfor it seems logical for me to give a short and high AC char the ability to keep enemies at a distance (halberds are better but require more strength too). He'll get a blunt weapon proficiency next.
-My swashbuckler-mage has ** in daggers and ** in single weapon style and she recently used darts as a ranged weapon (3 attacks per round)
-Mazzy: ***** in shortbows, *** in shortswords, * in single weapon style - next prof slot in a blunt weapon, mace or flail or club (dunno yet).

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited November 12, 2001).]