whirlwind question/ problem

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While playing around with a swashbuckler I noticed that she was not getting her 1o attacks/ round when whirlwind was activated. She was weilding firetooth +3 (the thrown dagger). When she switched to a non throwing weapon, however, her attack was set to 10. I equipped the dagger and other throwing weapons on other melees to see if it was just a kit specific problem, and the same thing happened.
I recently uninstalled and reinstalled all of my mods and patches. Is this a standard problem? Or do I need to reinstall mods/ patches again? Or is a swashbuckler wielding bloodbane just a pipe dream?
I apologize if this is an old topic, but I didnt see any posts on it when I did a search.

 

i guess it only works on melee weapons

 

WW and GWW should work with ranged weapons too - my F/M/T likes to use GWW with the Gesen bow to soften up targets... unless the Swashbuckler version differs from the Fighter version

 

It's a bug that involves IIRC only 2 weapons:

The Boomerang Dagger +2 and the Fire Tooth Dagger +3.

With one of these 2 weapons equipped characters do not get 10 ApR whith GWW (and WW) attacks.This happens when they are used either as melee or as thrown.

I am quite sure that all the other weapons give the 10 ApR with GWWs so I guess that you could use Bloodbane with no problems.

 

What about Kundane +2? Do GWW and WW work fine with it or does it have the same problem?

 

@Sikret

Yep you are right.

Just tested and Kundane and Belm have the same problem.No 10 ApR with GWW or WW attacks.And this happens if they are equipped in the off hand too.

The character seems to attack 10 times/round (from the animation) but the text does not confirm it.

So it's a problem with weapons which grants extra ApR?
Because Fire Tooth +3 and the Boomerang Dagger +2 do grant an (undocumented) additional ApR when they are used as melee.

If it's an extra ApR related problem though I don't understand why someone get the 10 ApR when attacking with the Tuigan or the Light Crossbow of Speed, weapons that grant extra ApRs too.

 

Thanks for the quick test and response, thetruth!

The extra attack bonus in Tuigan and Light Crossbow of Speed is different from Kundane, Belm, etc.

Tuigan *sets* the number of attacks to 3. Light Crossbow of speed also *sets* the number of attacks to 2. These items have apparently no problem with GWW and WW. Am I right? Have you tested them?

But, Kundane, Belm and those two daggers *add* one extra attack per round (rather than setting the number of attacks to a specific number).

It seems that the problem only occurs for weapons which add attacks, but not for weapons which set the number of attacks.

 

Yes I have tested them.Character gets the 10 ApR.

I thought that it could be a problem with weapons which grant +1 ApR and not "set" them, but at the same time I thought that the Light Crossbow of Speed adds and not sets ApR.

Anyway can this be corrected ?

 

The way ApR is boosted is different between these weapons and abilities, and it looks as if one kind of setting prevents the other from working.

WW, GWW, Light Crossbow of Speed, Tuigan Bow: SET ApR to a specific amount.

Kundane, Belm: ADD +1 to existing ApR.

Problem seems to arise when a SET is overlayed on an ADD.
e.g. WW won't work with Belm.

(NB: can't test the daggers initially mentioned properly as I've the Fixpack mod installed that changes them to thrown only.)

EDIT: Dang, I'm too slow today.

 

Hmm so no 10 ApR with Scarlet Ninja-To as well and unfortunately for you Spartan no WWattacks with Bloodbane.

But anyway I.Haste would be more than enough - Bloodbane is so overpowered that 10 ApR with it would be a bit overkill

 

There is a similar problem between girdles of giant strength and the second level mage spell "Strength". The spell always takes precedence and sets your strength at 18/50 (no matter if the girdle has already been worn or to be worn after the spell is cast).

 

Awesome response! I think my swashbuckler will be using the dwarven thrower for those ranged WW situations.

 

Haste and attacks per round stack in very odd ways--the IESDP has research in this area for those who want the technical nitty gritty on ApR stacking and how haste actually works. (Greater) Whirlhind basically maxes ApR at 5, then adds a haste effect so that your 'round' is cut to three seconds instead of six.

As for items and spells that both try to set the same effect, the engine (generally) parses items and spells in a set order (more IESDP research) and the last item with a set effect wins.

 

This is not true. In the case of girdle of giant strength and "Strength" spell. The girdle has a set effect; however it always loses to the spell even if it comes last.

 

Please read the linked post. As indicated, spell effects always trump items as they're last in the order.

edit: sorry, I see. The last line of my previous post was poorly worded. Try "and the last item on the list with a set effect wins". I don't mean the last actual item of equipment. Incidentally, this order is also why strength belts always trump the Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

[ January 28, 2007, 11:20: Message edited by: CamDawg ]

 

Checking to see how non-weapon items that add attacks/ round are effected by WW/ GWW I equipped the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization. This caused a similar yet different bug. With WW/ GWW active my char. attacks/ round were set to 9 instead of 10.

I then tested WW/ GWW with the gauntlets equipped and with firetooth, bloodbane, and belm. Again, my char. attacks/ round were set to 9.

 

Yeah, 9 ApR is a confirmation of the linked research.

(G)WW sets ApR to 5 and the Gauntlets add another half attack, so with the doubling from haste it should end up as 11 ApR, right? No, because it's the key values for the ApR opcode that actually stack here--in this case, 5 and 6 respectively--for a total of 11. Any key value >= 10 results in 4.5 ApR. With the doubling from haste, the end result is only 9 ApR. It doesn't matter if the weapon sets a different ApR, as the ApR from the spell trumps it and the end result is the same. (Even an item that adds ApR such as Belm wouldn't matter in this case, as it would only serve to inflate the key value total even further beyond 10.) Using pretty much any +ApR item in conjunction with Whirlwind costs you an attack.

All sorts of silliness results from the way Bioware set up the ApR opcode to stack the key values instead of the actual attacks per round. (To be fair, the haste opcode is even more bizarre. ) Casting Offensive Spin (+1 ApR) on top of Melf's Minute Meteors (set to 5 ApR) results in only 0.5 attacks per round.

[ January 29, 2007, 04:24: Message edited by: CamDawg ]