magical defenses

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I'm confused about some of the magical defenses and ways to bring them down.
For example: The spell description for secret word says that it will take down spell shield. The spell description for spell shield says that it will protect you from secret word!
They can't both be right so how does it work?

 

Weird, it must be some sort of an error. I don't have much experience with those, so can't say for sure which works correctly. I suggest experimenting.

 

The Spell Shield absorbs the Secret Word and is also consumed. So, the Secret Word will not remove your other spellprotections, but in the expense of your 'spell shield'.This is how it is supposed to work. But of course, Spell Shield is bugged in the vanilla game: it *sometimes* stays active without being consumed even after absorbing a magicattack (magicattacks are spells such as Secret Word, Pierce shield, Ruby Ray et al). I have partially fixed this bug in IA v4.3. It now works much better than how it worked in the vanilla game, but the nasty bug doesn't seem to be completely removable.

 

This is all very confusing. Ive always had trouble with high level mages - guess i rely on throwing everything at them and hoping i get lucky!

I always have true seeing cast and then just randomly throw in: pierce magic, ruby ray / warding whip and breach, then hope for the best.

What do people think is the best way to take down annoying mages/liches?

 

In the vanilla game - just breach and bash.
Breach to get rid of stoneskin and just keep doing physical damage so that it disrupts their spell casting. Don't bother casting spells on them - typically this would require several other spells such as secret word/ruby ray/warding whip, Mages never have much HP anyway. Worst case scenario is that they'll have something like mantle or absolute immunity on, which runs out in around 4 rounds anyway.
So yeah, just have a few breaches on hand (my 5th level slots are usually full of them) and get your swords sharpened and raring to go!

[edit] just a few more things - make use of the ring of the ram from tolgerias in the planar sphere, get the mages out of the way first, then go for the party (they can get quite out of hand if you focus on the warriors 1st) and try and get a spell like Melf's acid arrow (lvl2 mage) or insect plague (priest spell) before they put up spell protections. Hastening your party will allow you to get to the mage asap and deal plenty of damage. Liches are always a tad harder - try turning them if you have a high level cleric, use traps (usually you can set them before touching their tomb), cast sunray (either from the daystar sword under the crooked crane or from your priest), use the ring of the ram, use summons as distractions, use magical weapons and don't be afraid to run if it all starts to get out of hand.

 

Stu pretty much describes my anti-lich tactics quite well. Depending on where you encounter the lich in question, i.e. how much space you have to spread out, etc., your tactics might be adjusted.

Like against the "Daystar" Lich, often the best tactic is to run out of his crypt for a round or two to get away from his meteor storm.

I've also found that it's generally a waste to case offensive spells at liches. They'll usually get absorbed or magic resisted. And the time and effort of casting the offensive spell is usually better spent casting counterspells like Breach or Ruby Ray or True Sight.

And, if you have Keldorn in your party, don't be afraid to use his powerful Dispel Magic. Yes, it will dispel your own protections if you're too close. But more than likely, you will come out ahead if both your party and the lich lose their magical protections.

Breach and bash, hit'em hard and fast.


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@Toker,

I tend to like having 2 mages by the time I'm a little further into the game and facing tougher mages becomes more and more common. It really helps to have TWO spellcasters who can be casting counterspells, like Breach, etc.

And, of course, Keldorn, particularly armed with Carsomyr, tends to be the all-purpose, anti-archmage swiss army knife of NPCs.

But here's one that can come as a bit of a surprise. Mazzy Fentan. Arm her with her personal short sword which protects her against Stun and give her the Shield of Harmony which protects against a lot of other nasty spell effects, and you have a surprisingly nasty little tank who is resistant to LOTS of the nastier spells that upper level mages can throw your way.

 

Azuredge, the axe from Bernard's shop in the CC works wonders on nasty liches. Even with a low level party you can take out the lich in the Crooked Crane Inn for instance.

At the end of the day the best way to take down a mage is a dual wielding Wizard Slayer (preferaby with weapons that give extra attacks) after a few hits the fight is over. Crude but effective.

 

Great advice, can't wait to try the new tactics. Just one more point, that nasty demi liche in the docks district has a really anti social habit of imprisoning.
Does Minsc's "rage" make him immune?
Other that casting loads of summonings, is there a better way to take it out?

 

No idea, I've never tried it, but barbarian/berserker rage stops it, so I'd assume Minsc's enrage would too.
Another way is to use those protection from undead scrolls that tend to be around the place (theres some in the Adventurer Mart) - they are pretty rare though, so save em for the occasion . One thing - the prot. from undead scrolls make you invisible to Kangax - so you need to have one 'visable' character for him to talk to before he goes into demi lich form.

Also do a search of the forums (its right under the post a poll button at the top of the page) - there are literally hundreds of topics on taking down Kangax .
Try laying plenty of traps to force him staight into demi-lich form, the cast 2 sunrays and ring of ram him straight after his dialogue. Kepp bashing with +4 or greater weapons, and he should fall. Cast freedom to get any imprisoned party members back. Note that imprisonment can break romances, so you may want to keep your love interest upstairs.

 

Actually Minsc's rage does not protects from imprisonment. And the same is true for the Barbarian's rage. It doesn't grant immunity to imprisonment and is the main difference from the Berserker's rage which does (unless you use I.Anvil or other tweak mods that makes Barbarian's rage similar to the Berserker's rage).

Some ways to make you immune to imprisonment:

- Protection from Magic scroll (on your character or on Kangaxx ).
- Spell Immunity: Abjuration
- Spell Trap (even better the one from the Staff of the Magi)
- Berserker's rage
- The Slayer form cannot be imprisoned
- Spell Turning (immunity for 2 imprisonments)
- Shield of the Archons (from a high level cleric)

And another way to kill easily Kangaxx is to hit him a few times with the upgraded Mace of Disruption (usually he fails his save).

 

I usually go with the Protection from Undead on 5 party members, leaving 1 to do the talking. Also, unless your "one to do the talking" NPC/PC has anti-Imprisonment protections, it's best to use an NPC, and make it one who is not romancing the PC. I used Keldorn, iirc, the last time I took on Kangaxx to be my "visible" (to undead) talker. Sure, he got Imprisoned, but I had a Freedom scroll ready, which I used after the rest of my party, invisible to Kangaxx, finished off the demi-lich. It's definitely a bad idea to let your PC be the "visible" talker (unless he's fully protected from Imprisonment), since if he gets Imprisoned, that's it ... game over.

 

In my latest game (which is an Improved Anvil game, btw), I used Minsc, who I SK'd to berserker, as the main tank. Most important "buffs" were rage and improved haste.

Once battle was engaged I sent over my fighter/mage protagonist with immunity to abjuration and improved haste (among a few other buffs) to join in. I had Nalia off to the side casting a few spells (luckily Kangaxx never focused on her, though she had abjuration immunity as well). Jaheira, Anomen, and my swashbuckler really just sort of watched the show from the sidelines.

Mr. K went down without doing any significant damage to my party.

 

@crusis
The cheesy scrolls of protection from undead are removed from the game by IA. So, that easy method doesn't exist anymore for those who are playing the game with IA.

@Marceror
Well done! But be prepared for a harder time against demi-liches in IA v4.3 (forthcoming):

Kangaxx will be slightly smarter than what he currently is in IA v4.2, but the other demilich (in Watcher's Keep) will be much more difficult to defeat.

 

Good to hear that Demi liches we be getting overhauled in IA 4.3. In reality, I found both of them to be disappointingly easy with my Improved Anvil party (wait a minute, I probably shouldn't encourage Sikret here!).