Idea: The "lesser spells" sorcerer

Remove all ads!

I was thinking about how powerful sorcerers are, and of ways to tone them down a bit. How about soloing a sorcerer, and only being able to use spells that aren't normally used. Has anyone done this? Is it doable? A list of spells that are "usable" would be something like these:

1: chill touch, color spray, grease, infravision, larloch's minor drain, shocking grasp, charm

2: deafness, detect invisibility, ghoul touch, glitterdust, know alignment, luck, power word: sleep, ray of enfeeblement, vocalize

3: clairvoyance, dire charm, hold person, hold undead, invisibility 10' radius, monster summoning 1, minor spell deflection, non-detection, prot. from cold, prot. from fire, prot. from normal missles, vampiric touch

4: contagion, emotion: helplessness, enchanted weapon, farsight, fireshield: blue, minor sequencer, monster summoning 2, Otiluke's resilent sphere, polymorph self, remove curse, teleport field

5: cloudkill, conjure lesser air/earth/fire elemental, domination, feeblemind, hold monster, minor spell turning, monster summoning III, phantom blade, prot. from acid, prot. from electricity, shadow door

6: chain lightning, death fog, disintegrate, flesh to stone, power word: silence, stone to flesh, wyvern call, spider spawn

7: cacofiend, control undead, delayed blast fireball, mass invisibility, power word: stun, prisimatic spray, sphere of chaos, khelben's warding whip

8: incendiary cloud, maze, power word: blind, summon fiend, symbol: fear, symbol: stun

9: black blade of disaster, energy drain, freedom, meteor swarm, power word: kill, shapechange, Wail of the banshee


I suppose once you got to a high enough level you could do it, but it would be difficult to not rely on the standard spells.

 

Probably not possible, since the first 3 levels dont have any damaging spells. Neither are there mass sleep, confusion spells. So I'd say it isnt likely.

 

With that spell list you would probably be cut to ribbons in no time. You seem to have left very little in the way of pure offensive or defensive spells. Also you have removed most of the spells that could be used to counter enemy defensive spells. A recipe for disaster if I ever saw one.

 

Here's an idea...how about make a sorcerer and randomly roll for spells. That could actually be really interesting. Anyone ever done it?

 

Spider Spawn is not a level 6 spell.

I think you should list spells you're not allowed to use instead and perhaps limit to banning four spells per level. That should be enough to cover almost all the most used spells and be a little bit more lenient.

I think it's doable with the spells you've listed, but would rather have another list, based on my suggestion of banning four spells per level.

Here's a suggestion of banned spells:
1: MM, Chrom Orb, Sleep, PfEvil
2: Mirror Image, Blur, Web, Melf's AA
3: Fireball, Skull Trap, MMM, Haste
4: Stone Skin, Greater Malison, Polymorph Self, Minor Sequencer
5: Breach, Lower Resistance, Animate Dead, Spell Immunity
6: Mislead, True Sight, Death Spell, Pf Magical Weapons
7: Project Image, Mordenkainen's Sword, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Spell Sequencer
8: Abi Dalzim's HW, Simulacrum, Pierce Shield, Spell Trigger
9: Chain Contingency, Time Stop, Wish, Shapechange

 

I've thought about getting a sorcerer like this for use in a totally player created party -- he'd be the guy that has the spells that are hard to find on scrolls for the use of regular mages. But he'd really kind of suck in a lot of ways, especially with spells like Infravision (who included that spell in the game, and WHY?)

 

He doesn't have to take Infravision, it's just one of the spells he still may pick.

I forgot to say that I think this is a very interesting idea.
Thumbs up to nataben1314 !

 

The thought sortof came to me when I found a scroll of shocking grasp and realized that I have never once in my illustrious history of Baldur's Gate games ever cast it. It seemed a shame that

1. sorcerers are so overpowered because of a few particular spells

2. most spells are never used

Imagine beating mages without the help of precious spells like breach, imagine getting through melee fights without stoneskin, mirror image, magic missle, skull trap, or fireball! This could perhaps provide the fun of a spellcaster without the overpowered nature of a normal solo sorcerer.

 

I've tried randomly rolling for a sorcerer's spell list in p n p and it can be quite interesting lol

My 2 1st level spells were Endure Elements and Ray of Enfeeblement.

Personally, I'd think that the kind of sorcerer you've suggested nataben1314 is best suited to a party based game and not a solo one. Though if you are able to get far in the game using that spell list then good on you

Remember to spend much money buying spells until you can kill things properly

 

Yes, what about buying scrolls and casting the "banned" spells from them? It wouldn't last too long, but it could be a way around the restriction, so should that be allowed?

I'm seriously considering this now.

 

Perhaps it could be allowed... I'm not familiar with exactly how many scrolls of said spells there are available. I suppose if it is around 5-6 or less it would be fine, since you would only use them for the toughest battles. The main thing we are trying to avoid with this is the standard sorcerer (cast best spells, rest, cast best spells, rest).

Another idea I had was to use a sorcerer but have a rule that you must use every spell in your book before you can rest, but this really wouldn't probably be very difficult.

 

Using every spell sounds too contrived to me.

What do you think about my suggestion of banning the four most used sorcerer spells per level as an alternative to the list you initially posted?
Any of the spells you'd change?

 

At first I thought it was a great idea to give the more unused spells a fair chance to show what they really go for. But when I really though about it, it turned out to be a really bad idea. The reason for why there are two groups, used and unused is not because some are immensely owerpowerd and some are just average. It's because some may be used in all most any situation and some are just crap. I strongly believe that some spells were created only to fill out some quota. But then there are probably some spells that just didn't get the proper scripting due to lack of time.

Between, are we talking party or solo Sorcerer? I'm having a hard time figuring out how a solo Sorcerer could even manage Chateau Irenicus without Stone Skin, MM and Chromatic Orb.

 

I think your way is good, Earl Grey. And since I do not know the spells as well as you do, I would say your list is good (although I never knew polymorph self was a good spell! what is it used for?).

Algarion, I think Irenicus' dungeon could be managed with some cruddy damage spells (whatever happens to be available... maybe shocking grasp or vampiric touch or something like that). Just fire spell, cast invisibility, rest, repeat.

It would be tedious, but I think at least doable.

 

If that's the way you like to play the game then go for it!

I would prefer a sorcerer with a bit wider spell book. Not just the standard spells but some of the ones that you mentioned in your first post. Like I said before, many of the unused spells really stink. If you created a Sorcerer with all those unused spells you would end up using only a few of them, the only ones that actually worked decently in most situations. A mix of popular and un-popular spells would give you the safety to try different strategies whit the unused while you relayed on your standards to finish of the situation in case something went wrong.

 

But how would you possibly decide how many spell slots would go to popular spells, and vice-versa? Methinks that even if you were allowed only one or two slots per level for popular spells most people would just end up using those, resting, repeating.

 

It can be done.
I've soloed an Enchanter relying only on enchantment spells (and an alteration/abjuration spell or two) and if you know your way around it gets easier as you gain levels.

You'll need a working knowledge of the properties of the items and equipment in the game, though, since you'll be relying on more than just your spells to see you through.
Offensive Spellflinging seems to be a favorite amongst Sorcerer/Mage-users in this board, which is as it should be. But it should also be known that there are other effective tactics Mages can employ.
Especially in BG2.

Most of the unused spells are underrated.
Although some are indeed useless, its your overall selection of spells that count. Some spells can work wonders only when used with other spells- and this is how it usually works for the non direct-damage spells.

 

I'm with Scythesong. With the exception of a few spells I consider truly essential (such as Breach, Ruby Ray Of Reversal), it should be possible to pick "non-optimal" spells and succeed. I would have thought that a creative player could find good uses for underrated spells, especially in a spell sequencer/trigger. Charm and Hold are always strong, but undervalued when magics with more obvious applications are selectable (such as Abi-Dalzim's, Time Stop, etc). Combining them with spells like Greater Malison or using magic to *avoid* combat or strategically separate enemies, throwing in a summon or three and turning them against one another, it can be even more effective than throwing out blasty-spells-o'-death.

 

A great part of this is that you might get to see the graphic effects of some spells for the first time!

Polymorph Self is used mainly to gain 100% magic resistance by morphing to the Mustard Jelly. It can be a true lifesaver.
There are only two spells I consider great at 4th level and those are Stoneskin and Greater Malison.

Solo sorcerer.

If those three spells are the only ones you are not allowed to use then getting through Irenicus Dungeon is a piece of cake.

Chromatic Orb is IMO overrated. I've never liked it. The save is at +6 for heaven's sake!
Besides it is bugged since it disregards magic resistance in its Stun, Petrification and Slay abilities. You need to get the fix for that if you decide to use this spell.

I agree. When comparing one spell with another it's so easy to discard the weaker one and then, subconsciously or not, think of it as a "crappy" spell.

Time now to plan the "Lesser Sorcerer" spell selection!
Without Greater Malison, most save or else spells will probably have a hard time making the cut.

I'll be back!

Edited:
Almost finished with Irenicus' Dungeon.
I picked these starting spells:
1:
- Friends
- Larloch's Minor Drain
- Reflected Image
- Shield
- Spook
2:
- Agannazar's Scorcher
- Knock
- Glitterdust
3:
- Slow
- Lightning Bolt

[ July 29, 2004, 17:19: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

Great to see someone trying this idea, Earl Grey! I'm anxious to see how hard (or easy) it turns out to be.