POLL: Paladin - do you include evil characters?

Remove all ads!

When you have a Paladin in your party do you include evil characters or not?

[ December 18, 2002, 16:41: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 24 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Paladin - do you include evil characters (24 votes.)

When you have a Paladin in your party do you include evil characters? (Choose 1)
* Never - 38% (9)
* Sometimes - 46% (11)
* Always - 17% (4)

 

Normally, if I was going to play an evil party, I wouldn't include a Paladin. However, having a somewhat non-standard party is part of the fun, so there's no specific reason (other than realism) not to include one.

That being said, there are a number of reasons not to bring a Paladin in an all-evil party. You would face some problems with spells like Unholy Blight, as your Paladin would probably be in the thick of the fighting. I would personally also feel the inconcistency somewhat jarring, having a beacon of truth and goodness wandering around the countryside along with a group of hellspawn. (By the way, can Paladins Fall like in IWD1?) In other games, like BG2, there would be severe personality clashes, like Viconia and Keldorn, but there are no such issues in IWD2 (more's the pity).

So, all things considered, I'd keep the Paladin for the all-good party, and just roll up a Chaotic Evil Fighter or some such for the evil dudes.

 

Yes, I am a powergamer, so "realism" is a thing of the past and no-one can judge me except me.

Besides a paladin could be trying to reform the evil duergar warrior to the light...

A lawful good paladin who kills "evil" people because it is "good" is hardly "good" at all and that is hardly realistic...

 

I don't. I try to role-play as much as possible. In BG2 I had Vic, Edmund & Keldorn, and the sparks started flying. That taught me quickly how people with those personalities would interact.

So now, at worst, I'll have someone Chaotic Neutral, but never evil

 

It's Edwin, Edwin!!! Sometime Edwinia but never Edmund. You could get yourself a fireball is Edwin hears that.

Replying the title, of course i include evil member with paladin together.

The history tells us, during World War 2, Japan invaded China. There were two major power in China that time, the KMT and Communists. KMT is the power that liberated China from monarch rule. So as far as KMT concern, Japaneses are evil, communists are evil too. However many people inside KMT insisted KMT to work with Communists to clear out Japaneses first. Two generals even kidnapped the leader of KMT to force him to work with the commnunists. (Turns out that it worked, KMT and communists worked together to fight Japanese. But then communists' power and influence grew bigger eventually chased KMT to Taiwan.)

So, i have no problem working evil people with good people. The fact is there is a even greater evil right now, So i (assume i am good, which is not) can work with small evil to finish the big evil first. Yes, the small evil might not be agree with me all the time but he/she should be intellegent enough to know who will win at the end and who is a better investment for the time being.

By the way, why evil gods don't have 'paladin' to worship them? Dark power is also power, right? Why there is Dark Jedi but no dark paladin? i know there is fallen paladin but i think Dark Jedi can perfect their skill after they have fallen but fallen paladin can't.

 

Wow.. that last post was ALL over the place..
Lets start with the reason why there are no Evil Paladins. Paladin is a profession, not a race (drow,) or lifestyle (monk.) A paladin is a sheriff, an enforcer of the law. There may be different types of paladin's, just like there are different law enforcement officials from different countries, but they ALL follow the law of their lands. Having evil paladin's is like having evil police officers or evil counter- terrorist agents (not just corrupt, but EVIL,) which would make no sense. You can train a police officer to protect the law of the land but it wouldn't be right to train him to violate those laws. And paladins do not Worship their gods, they follow their creed. Worship is for clerics. A paladin's creed goes even beyond that of the police (to serve and protect,) they proactively search out the evils of the world to fight. So the idea of working with evil to fight evil is alien to the paladin. They may tolerate the smaller evils to go after the bigger ones, but their job is to fix the injustices of the world.

 

Let go a small bait to catch a bigger fish.

There are laws that brings justice but there are also laws that don't bring justice. For example, evil codes set by evil ruler. A police that enforce racial segregation in former South Africa would be ... ?

Besides, we all know that police often work with the small gangsters to catch the big mafia.

[ December 18, 2002, 20:57: Message edited by: teekc ]

 

A police officer protecting whites when blacks go on a murder spree in south africa would be...? Trying to find the exception to the rule makes this argument outrageous, but since we're comparing paladins to the real world I believe its already crossed over to that preposterous bent. What you're forgetting is that in DnD, the good vs evil argument is inevitably linked to Law vs Chaos. A paladin isn't just fighting against evil, he fights against anarchy as well. One who answer's the calling of the paladin believes in Order and justice and he would never willingly serve a regime that would perpetuate insensitve and insensible laws. Aparteid, slavery, oppression are all against the sense of justice of most enlightened people.

 

From the 1st ed. PHB "They will assocciate only with charactures and creatures of good alignment; paladins can join a company of adventures which contains non-evil neutrals only on a single adventure basis." From the 3rd ed. PHB "While they may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters." Even though 3rd ed. has watered down the paladin, the rule against evil and paladins still stands. So if you mix evil and paladins then you're not RPing your paladin.

 

And who cares? If the people who "invented" the Paladin for 3E actually thought about a real "paladin" (Jesus Christ comes to mind here) he associated (as is claimed) with "evil" people to reform them. That was my point earlier.

Besides, "paladins" according to DND are just so unbelievably fake that to take the handbooks literally makes me ill.

Capt. This is my feelings here and I am not directing it at you or criticising you. Opinions are just that and in the end, they are worthless...

 

I do...

 

I still follow the 1st edition AD&D description of Paladins as quoted by Capt. Tripps. I certainly do not find it "unbelievably fake".

 

I always do! I enjoy the banter between the evil and good characters

 

Earl Grey. That's fine. Do you think that I could "roleplay" a paladin who is trying to convert the evil ones to the "right path"?

 

The group that I play with used to feature both a gnomish paladin (shudder), but also a homicidal madman (VERY chaotic evil). However, to RP it, the paladin simply didn't know what the evil guy was doing. After all, paladins aren't omnicient.

 

Doesn't your Paladin ever use Detect Evil? There's no way he can be ignorant to the fact that there is an evil member in the party!

If I were the DM I wouldn't even warn the good Paladin, one day he'd simply be stripped of his Paladin abilities... cue an adventure to recover his lost abilities.

[ December 20, 2002, 06:46: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]