The Best Sneak Attack

Remove all ads!

I was just thinking about how practically EVERYONE thinks that a pure rogue is usless but that's not true! The rogue gains a hell of a lot of good abilities throughout the game, one of his most powerful being the sneak attack. Many people often find this to be useless as well!

Now, I just wanted to know exactly the best way to structure a rogue as to provide him with the best sneak attack possible but with some real grunt to be put up and survive survive on the front lines long enough!

What exactly should be his class structure, as in, what additional classes should he take to make him a real force in IWDII?

Weapons and strategies would also be helpful too!

 

If you're looking for the best sneak attack possible, then it's pure rogue all the way.

But trying to get the best sneak attack possible AND to be a good tank are pretty much mutually exclusive goals. The only way to get "the best sneak attack possible" is to be a 100% pure rogue so that you get the maximum number of sneak attack dice possible. Taking levels in other classes only dilutes this.

This is not to say that mutliclassed rogues are bad. But the one thing that most MC'd rogues give up is the great sneak attack.

Rather than trying to combine sneak attack and tanking, you would be better served to try to combine sneak attacking with ranged attacks. Rogues aren't utterly useless in melee if they have the right stats, but they're better off either being archers and bodyguards to the party's spellcasters, or/and sneak attackers. Except for sneak attacking, they should only engage in melee if they have no choice.

 

Pure rogue is the way to go to maximise the sheer amount of brutal damage done. My level 30 tiefling rogue had 15d6 sneak attacks!

The best weapon, is a lance found in HoF, I forgot its name, Twleve-paces or what? Anyway, it has a very long reach, and thus perfect for nasty sneak-attacks both when hiding or in the thick of melee! Plus IIRC it could cast Lover Resistance, a good enough bonus.

 

Silverstar, you 100% correct about 12 Paces being a great Sneak Attack weapon in HOF, as long as you have a high enough STR to not give up much BAB. Shouldn't really be a problem by HOF with STR enhancing items, etc. That spear lets your rogue hide behind the front lines of your own tanks and support the tanks. or you can get in a lot of nasty sneak attacks from surprising range.

 

Hmm that sounds pretty good to do with a long reach weapon! IDW doesn't allow sneak attacks like NVN where you can do it with ranged attacks ey? That's what I was just thinking about, because I would actually take on archery if that was the case! But are people sure you can't have a tankish character at all if you take a large number of Rogue levels? I mean, wouldn't you need to take a few fighter levels or something?

 

Hmm a few fighter levels would help, but you will lose on sneak attack damage. 2 levels of rogue add one 1d6 extra damage. If you take 4 levels of fighter, you lose 2d6 sneak damage. Not a big loss, considering the bonuses you get:martial weapon proficiencies, specialisation, armor proficiencies, better BAB, HP, and Fort Saves!

But if you take too much fighter levels it will cripple your sneak attack. Badly.

 

What about 4 levels as a Mage or a Sorcerer (or even Demarch of Mask) in order to be able to cast Invisibility?
Sneak, Backstab, run and sneak again or cast Invisibility if surrounded.
To think of it a Rogue level 2/Mage X would fare better (Evasion and Fireball )
It's a matter of choice, sneak attacks require a lot of levels to become effective (the same goes for wizards).

 

What about 15rogue/15mage? Will it be effective?

15 levels of rogue will give you 7d6 sneak attacks, not bad. 15th level of mage will give A LOT OF very useful spells like Stoneskin, Improved Inv. (patched version) and others. Sounds like a good enough idea. Plus improved evasion is fun with skull-traps and other area-effect spells. (NOT with Horrid Wilting though. )

 

Yes I was thinking that, but with 15 levels of mage, although you get quite a few nice spells to help you in your melee, wouldn't it out too much of your sneak attack damage to be really effective? 7d6 you'll lose ...

 

15 lvls mage for a char is quite stupid since you'll miss the ultimate spell lvl. 17 lvls mage would give you that with just 1d6 less sneak-attack but then you look more like a mage than a rogue.

29 rogue lvls and one lvl in a fighter class (for weapon pros. Barbarian or ranger is probably best.) is a good rogue.

Another good rogue would be a rogue25/barb1/ranger1/wiz3 (just take the 3rd wiz-lvl as lvl 30). This gives mirror image, fast speed, dual wielding for the cost of 2d6 sneak attack. 13d6 should be enough...

 

^That sounds like a neat advice. And, I didn't want level 17 mage as level 9 spells are sooo evil in this game. One WoB and all down! Scary!

 

If I were to go for a "near pure" Rogue, I'd add in 2 Fighter (feats), 1 Ranger (free dual weilding), and 1 Barbarian (it's like getting 'dash' for free plus the Rage).

 

I think the issue with adding a Barbarian and Ranger level is this:

The Rogue gets 1 free feat evey 3 levels from the 10th level. If we want to have the maximum sneak attack, we would not spend any of those rogue-only feats that sacrifice nD6 sneak attack points for a different effect.
So, with all those "unspent" feats at your disposal, do you really need to add Barbarian and Ranger levels?
Especially if you get 2 free feats by adding 2 fighter levels...

If adding any mix-in levels, you should always try to make keep the rogue levels odd, as the rogue recieves 1D6 sneak attack every odd level, i.e. 1, 3, 5, etc.
So, to maximize sneak attack, you are really looking at 1 level in a different class - and as already discussed, it would be best to take a fighter level.

 

One fighter level if you don't want to dual wield. Since a Rogue is not going to wear heavy armours one Ranger level is just as good (if not better) for dual wielding. If this is a high STR Rogue then one Barbarian level is not such a dumb idea. Fighter levels are best if you plan to get specialization, if you are building a MC with more than 1 extra level, if your character is likely to wear a heavy armour or if you're taking a few Fighter levels to get extra spellcasting feats for a spellcaster (apart from weapon proficiencies).

Actually the efficiency of a Rogue depends on the party. A fulltime Rogue works wonders with a Cleric. When someone is held the Rogue has no problems finishing the job.

IMHO a solo rogue would fare better with a few Cleric levels (Mask) than with a few Wizard/Sorcerer levels. But a Rogue greatly benefits from being in a party.

 

If I were going to add ONLY a single level of fighter, ranger, or barbarian to a rogue for the profs, I'd probably go with the ranger or barbarian. It seems to me that the real value of a Fighter comes after you've taken 4 levels in the class.

OTOH, 1 level of ranger gets you the free dual wielding, as well as some more skill points (although those aren't going to add up to all that much overall for a pure rogue who will be drowning in SP, if he's got a decent INT).

Or, 1 level of Barbarian will get you barbarian footspeed and 1 use of Rage per day, which isn't a terrible thing for a rogue who might not be the strongest character around. Using Rage while you go on a little sneak attacking foray behind enemy lines could be a good thing.

About the best thing I can say about taking a single level of fighter is that, IIRC, fighters get an extra Feat at level 1, although frankly if a nearly pure rogue is taking a level of fighter, you are effectively getting a bucketload of "free"-ish weapon profs.

The idea of adding in a single level of a warrior class to an otherwise pure rogue to make them tougher sneak attackers isn't a bad idea. But I'm not so sure that Klorox's idea of taking 2 Ftr levels, 1 ranger level, *and* 1 barb level is a good idea cuz you're giving up 2d6 of sneak attack is a serious loss for a character whose intent is sneak attacking.

 

Weapon Spesialisation is amazingly overrated, I would never bother to take 3 extra fighter levels just for that.

I like the barbarian combo alot, not so much th ranger, but then again I am not to fan of dual wielding. If taken early i would prefer the fighter level for the extra feat, if taken later I would prefer the Barbarian.

There exist a single reason to take 4 levels of warrior, and that is that it grants you +4 bab instead of +3 for 4 rouge levels. This boost your BAB to 16 instead of 15, thus granting you a 4th attack (which is still only at +1) It is a very "minor" thing, as you will miss more often on this attack than not (unless help from cleric hold person).

And in general I would prefer the extra 2D6 sneak attack damamge on those attacks that actually hit.

Also sneak attacking is not as efficient as it should be in this game, unfortunatelly. From what I can recal you only get it when hiding/attacking, and never when flanking ? I don't think the engine can figure out flanking.

 

Raptor, I never really needed to be hidden to make Sneak Attack work with my pure rogue. Oh, often, I'd start with my rogue stealthed so that he could either get behind enemy lines prior to me starting the battle. But after the crap hit the fan, I'd have my rogue SA target #1 in the melee wall, then move onto another target in the melee wall and SA that monster (successfully), then move on to target #3, and so on. I could get in one SA after another by merely switching from 1 target to the next to the next, without worrying about finishing off each target.

Oh, once in a while, one of the baddies might turn on my rogue, and he'd have to run back to my melee formation for support. But on the whole, I found sneak attacking with a pure rogue to be a rather fun and effective tactic in NM. In HOF, it's still a good way to produce lots of damage, but given how tough the baddies become, you have to be VERY careful to not let your SA rogue get caught behind enemy lines. It requires a bit of micro management to perform the hit and run sneak attacking to avoid getting overwhelmed. But it can still be fun.

 

Sneak attacks are easy to perform in this game. You do not need to be hidden or invisible, you just need to attack from an enemy's behind and voila:you will do some good sneak attack damage!

Long reach weapons help best, if you try to sneak attack with a dagger, the monster will turn to you as you will be the closest target.

Have your rogue travel through the battlefield and look for enemies who are occupied with tanks...they are so busy that their backs are turned:sweet!

You can not repeatidly sneak attack someone so spread your attacks on other potential victims:you will be suprised how effective your rogue becomes with a little micro management and ofcourse, luck.

 

Are their good scripts for sneak attacking? I have downloaded some scripts for this game, never used them though.

The problem I have with sneak attack is that it requires so many points to be invested. Pity its not a multiplier like good old 2ed.

 

That's just one of the reasons why people hate this game's 'version' of the sneak attack.