My new party

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I just thought I would post the party I am now going with, based on my early experiences with the first party I posted, and advice on these boards. I am playing on insane level.

1. Human Cleric of Lathlander(x), Ranger(1), Monk(1)
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 3, Wis 18+1, Cha 3
He fights without armour - his wisdom increases both his AC and his spell penetration and # of spells. With a mage armour spell on, he has AC of 28 - better than any of the other chars. He dual wields - currently the shame of dyn thang (sp?) short sword, and the golden heart long sword (I spent all my cash on this, and it is worth it! - he has over 40% of party kills).

2. Half-Orc Cleric of Tempus(x), Barbarian(?)
Str 20, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 3, Wis 18+1, Cha 3
He wields a two handed axe, and dull-cobble's axe for ranged. Again, great damage, and he gets the cleric levels early. I am debating whether to add some barbarian levels - now that he has summon dead.

3. Aasimir Paladin(2) Sorceror(x)
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 3, Wis 5, Ch: 20+1
She is a classic fighter mage - taking mostly buff spells, does some bombarding while enemies at range, then gets in close and fights.

4. Tiefling Rogue(2) Wizard(x)
Str 9, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 20+1, Wis 10, Cha 1
Standard Rogue/Wis combo - thieves, bombards, buffs, and has great ranged weapon ability. Also does the alchemy, lore, etc.

5. Drow Sorc(x)
Str: 8, Dex: 18, Con: 10, Int 20, Wis 4, Cha 20+1
The main bombardier - she can't fight, so if someone comes at her, she runs. She started slow, but is now getting a lot of kills, both through spells and ranged weapon kills. She is also the diplomat of the party - with the high int, she can pick up all the skills she needs.

I gave up on my previous party centered around a monk - although the monk is cool, I found I don't really like melee chars in this game - and with the summon dead spell, you get great meat shields, so you don't need them. So all of my toons are primarily spell caster, though 3 are good at melee, and all are good at ranged.

 

Interesting concept going in with no fighters. That would be too high maintenance for my liking (too much buffing required) but this party should do OK.

 

Considering that you already have a cleric you could look to limit the battlegaurds levels and concentrate on barbarian. If you go for 15/15 you will be exchanging the L9 summons for Greater rages.

Get pally[3]. The benefits are great and if you intend to take them to HoF, Sorc [28] is no better than Sorc [27].

Why not try Drow bard [11]/ sorc [19] ? the songs are always useful.

 

Got Shrikant's reply while editing, so might as well add to this.

I was considering adding barbarian levels, though I didn't have a good idea of a final level. 15/15 sounds interesting - worth looking into.

I considered adding bard to my main sorc, but then I will have to take an exp hit - not sure how much that will affect the toon - everyone seems to avoid exp hit like the plague.

So far the buffing hasn't been too bad - bull's strength, cat's grace, and mage armour last for hours, so I only buff once between resting. Also only my 3 melee types get buffed - the others run away when attacked in melee.

It seems like clerics, if they have the strength, con, make pretty good fighters, but I haven't played a pure fighter in this game, so I can't compare the damage/hp difference.

The paladin/sorc is the fighter mage (because of her ability choices and spell choices) - she mostly goes for the close up damage spells like burning hands and the buffs like cat's grace, mirror image, blur (though she has a couple of group damage and web spells). So far she is doing fine - she may not have a ton of hit points, but with mirror image. blur, cat's grace, and shield, she is sure hard to hit. With high strength, and the ability to cast spells like fireball, she is both good in melee, and a decent backup bombardier

 

You should not under estimate your monk. Although at first he may seem weak, but the monk can be the best defense against enemy fighters.

 

@ shrikant:

don't see the benefit of taken the 3rd pally level - would prefer to take the 1st two levels as pally and then change to sorc!

This way you have the pally benefits right away from the start - and don't get to far behind with the sorc!

As turn undead is based on both: CHA *and* paladin level you won't get that benefit from turning !

and who needs cure disease in IWD2?

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@barleycorn:

generally there is no need to have that high spellcaster levels - especially not for divine casters who don't get any mentionable benefits from any level beyond 20 !

...there are a few uncapped damage spells for arcane casters...-...but when you get to a level when you would get the bonus from these uncapped spells you are late in HOF and these spells are quite uselless at this point!

I really like the all casters approach (best from my point of view) - but I would MC a little bit more...

...one high level sorc should be enough!

[ December 09, 2004, 12:33: Message edited by: silverdragon72 ]

 

Like I said, consider taking 3 pally levels if you are going into HoF.
Since the rest of the levels are going to be spent on Sorcerer only, and the difference between an L27 and an L28 Sorc is the ability to cast a couple of low level spells more in a day (not learn mind you, just cast), you might as well take the immunity to disease.
Now the difference between a L27, L28 Sorc and an L29 Sorc is being able to learn one more spell of 3rd, 5th and 7th level each.

Thus as you can see the significant levels for such a Sorc are L27 and L29.
Taking 2 pally levels just makes no sence in such a case if the party will return in HoF mode.

About Wizards.
They do not get any new spell slots from L21 to L24. And even after that you get the ability to cast some more low level spells.
The only advantage of persuing further Wizard levels in to increase the potency and duration of certain spells.

You may thus find a Rouge[10]/Wizard[20] or any other combination more useful.

 

@silverdragon72
I can see your point of stopping divine spellcasters at 20 or 24 (the points at which you get additional level 8 spells). I may add 6-10 barbarian levels to the half-orc cleric of Tempus. I don't want to go any higher, or I will lose level 8 spells, so I will not worry about greater rage or tireless rage.

The human cleric of Lathlander is stuck with 1 Monk level, so he can add maybe 2 fighter levels, and a barbarian, and 2 rogue levels also, and get extra feats and skills and rage. I am not sure how I will explain the rogue levels from an rp point of view - and I have a great story for him now, so I may drop those

The two sorcs are totally differently played. One sits at the back and bombards opponents - typical wizard type. I would like to mix in some class with her, but she is a drow, so any mixin but cleric will give me an exp penalty - and she has no wisdom. I wouldn't mind mixing in bard, but I am not sure if it is worth it for the exp penalty. Any opinions here would be great.

The paladin mixin is in the front in melee, like a fighter wizard, and she has both buffs, and the close range spells that put most standard spell casters in danger - like sunfire and burning hands. As an aasimir, she also can't mix in any additional classes without exp penalty, and can't even add paladin levels, so she is stuck at paladin 2, sorc 28

@shrikant
rogue10 wiz20 sounds great - but I have to give up one level 9 spell. On the other hand, I hear the feats after rogue 10 are really good. Decisions, decisions...

Also, I figure I should mixin the other classes only after the max spellcaster level, for both the clerics, and the sorc/wizzies... right?

[ December 11, 2004, 01:44: Message edited by: barleycorn ]

 

IIRC Wizard gets 4 9th level spells at L20 itself.

If your mixin is a non spellbased class, then obviously its better to take them early on. Melee damage is more useful early on and till the middle of the game. However for additional spellcasting classes, you could take them later on. This way it becomes easier to level-squat and minimise the XP penalty.

You do realise that in a normal game you wont get over L20 for any of your chars. Unless you are using the double XP file.

 

@barleycorn: there are some very usefull class-combinations for MC-builds:


- cleric & monk (WIS)
- cleric & paladin (CHA)

-> monk 3 - paladin 2/3 - cleric 20-25 (all Ilmater) - optional: fighter 2/4

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- rogue & wizard combos (INT)

-> rogue 10/11 - wizard 20/19

-> rogue 3 - fighter 2/4 - barb 2/3 - wizard 20-23 - optional: ranger 2/3

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- sorcerer & paladin (CHA)

-> paladin 2/3 - sorcerer -21-28 optional: 3 monk levels for evasion & speed - 2/4 fighter levels for feats

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- bard & druid (bard can cast some usefull buffs before shapeshifting - and this PC could be a great talker - max. INT - WIS - CHA)

-> bard 9 - druid 21

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or a divine based melee-build

-> rogue 3 - fighter 4 - monk 3 - cleric 20

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...but there are also some reasons to have more then 20 caster levels:

...only the caster level are counted if spell based damage is calculated, if you need to break enemy SR or for special spells like dispel magic !

...so I would suggest to have one high level sorc (28 + 2 paladin) and one high level cleric (25 + 2 paladin + 3 monk), but then give the rest of your party only 20 caster levels!

so I wouldn't use any non-maincaster class as SC-build or as the major class of a MC-build


btw. you can't mix monk & barb cause of allignement !

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@ shrikant: as I would definetly take the paladin levels at first and you can't add more paladin levels later - I would start with 2 paladin levels and then change to sorc!

 

I would like to suggest another mixin that I really am enjoying - adding 1 monk level to any divine spellcaster. People talk about druid/monk, but I think cleric/monk works great also.

It gives you evasion, and adds wis to ac when not wearing armour.

With a divine spellcaster, you not only maxed wis, but are probably adding to it through the game, so when you do, you add to both your spellcasting and your armour class.

If you want, you can throw in ranger to get dual wielding for free (since you aren't planning to wear armour anyway).

 

Im never gonna understand you, silverdragon72.

Why? The Song of the Sith is worth far more than that one extra 9th level spell.
Since a Sorc[28] wont learn any more spells than Sorc[27], why not take absolute immunity to disease. I know its hardly ever used, but why not.

@barleycorn
I like adding that single monk level to my devine casters too. Just gotta be careful of XP penalties.
In my current game Im playing my decoy as the 'ScatterBrain'd DeepGnome'. She is currently a Rouge[1]/ Ranger[1]/ Illusionist[1]/ Fighter[1] Monk[1]/ Dreadmaster of Bane [2]. Her remaining levels will be unevenly distributed between Mage and Cleric.

 

@Shrikant :

you're right if you don't plan to shapeshift!

but if you shapeshift then you get on level:

- 22 the air-elemental (unmodded best shapeshift from my point of view) - in this case 22 - 8

- 21 (modded) the elemental half-dragon (definetly to powerfull for normal mode - but for HOF the only usefull shapeshift!


...but I agree that if you don't use shapeshifting - a 19 - 11 build is best!