For those of you who think the Cera Sumat is a joke... and other thoughts about Pal's

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Well, the holy avenger IS a joke. However, I would like to point out that you can pair it up and dual wield, thus making a rather bad weapon into a semi-useful one. Of course the obvious choice is to dual wield the Golden Heart with the Light of Cera Sumat. Its pretty clear the game designers had this in mind, tho to make a paladin not use a two handed sword seems kinda strange to me..
The other thing that I think is strange with Paladin's in general is just how weak they are compared to fighter/barb's. Speaking from beating HoF with a party of 6, my Pal's AC at 40 and he'd still get wasted. My barb of the same lvl (28) can go toe to toe with a few slayer knights at AC of 29 for twice as long without healing. The bottom line is, paladin's are always stat and equipment dependent, but in HoF they are outmatched b/c the effectiveness their stats or equipment are greatly diminished.

 

Honestly, I'm not very impressed with any of the weapons that I've found in IWD2. No cool hammers, axes or greatswords ... so the Cera Sumat was not a huge disappointment. This is pretty much what a traditional holy avenger was ... it just needs a 10' radius protection from evil.

Another note ... why have a paladin use a long sword instead of a greatsword ... in my reading, Paladins have usually been sword & shield types <or> greatsword users. Thinking of a paladin dual weilding is a little much for me.

 

It's not IWD II, but my favorite Paladin weapon from any of the games would have to be Pale Justice in the original IWD. That sword was just awesome.

 

For hammers, there's really not many good ones. Pretty much there's only Xvim's Brutal Impact - 1d8+5, +5 to strength, corrosive 33% 2d6 acid damage + 10% 2d10 acid damage, impact: increases chances of a critical hit. For axes, Cowards Flight - 1d10+5, 50% slow, 50% fear, Keen: increases chances of a critical hit. There's a couple of good greatswords, eg. Dwelnar's Folly, 2d6+5, brilliant enegery: ignores armor and shield bonuses. And then there's the longswords.. Cera Sumat is actually terrible compared to those other weapons. If you pair up a paladin with it and a shield, what you're getting is really just someone to soak up damage for you. A Pal simply can't do enough damage with that sword to justify its use w/o dual wielding. Speaking of which, my paladin is of the Mystra variety, so he already is a lot stranger than the average pal.
And yes, I have him dual wielding the Golden Heart and the Light of C.S.

 

I've been reading posts about the Cera Sumat for some time now, both here and in other forums, and have now reached the point where I need to say: What's wrong with you people?! No, the Holy Avenger isn't the Wrath of God turned steel. It won't allow you to slay everything at a touch. BUT IT'S A BLOODY +5 SWORD!! You're running a party of 14-15th level characters; what did you expect? I have played PnP roleplaying games for over 9 years, and none of my D&D DMs have EVER handed out anything even close. You all sound like a bunch of whining munchkins.

The Cera Sumat is a weapon that gives your Paladin +5 to hit (that's the BaB of 5 levels of Fighter, in case no one had noticed) and +5 to damage. In addition, there's the +2D6 to damage vs. evil opponents, AND the spell resistance, AND the Dispel Magic... Compared to the other weapons in the game, it is a perfectly natural progression; the only weapons coming close that I've seen yet (I'm about to enter Dragon's Eye) are +4 weapons, no frills. You have to look at the weapon within the context of the game it's in, not compare it to weapons in other games. For instance, some people compare it to Carsomyr. Well, people, Carsomyr was a sword featured in a game where your character eventually became a GOD!!! So please, quit whining and just play the game.

[ December 18, 2002, 22:24: Message edited by: Cross ]

 

There are no cool and decent weapons in normal IWD2 period. There are a few in HoF mode but not in any vast amounts. I dont know if this is a good or a bad thing, there are a weapon for all tastes just not the superweapons from bg2 and iwd1. It is pretty cool to be extremely grateful when you find your first +3 weapon even if it has no other special abilites than being +3. On the other hand finding lots of gear and really powerful weapons is one of the charms with a CRPG.

 

I think the Cera Sumat deception comes from that story they made for it, how the original owner *single-handedly* defeated those 6 tough mofos. This, and the unbelievable battle you have to fight for it, makes "it" pretty puny compared to the myth it's supposed to be. It just doesn't make that story believable. So either they should have deflated that story, or they should have made a better sword.

 

That sword was so pathetic to get I will never bother ever again. I'd have a Paladin, but not because of the sword. I also felt exactly the same about Pale Justice in IWD2. (If you read Pale Justice literally in swahili it means "dog turd").

In neither game do they make Paladins worth it over another class. I found my female Aasmiar paladin raped battle after battle and a lame rogue could last longer...

Just far too crappy in IWD2, perhaps a real 3E game might make Paladins better, but until then...

 

Oh, but I loved the battle for it though!
One of the best battles in the game. T_O_U_G_H ! And 6 of them! I must have replayed it 10 times just to find new ways to beat them!

 

That was the toughest battle of the game?

On the hammer and axe you mentioned above ... um, where do I find them?

 

Or you can stop whining and use Weimers Ease-of-use mod.

From the Readme file;

Improved Holy Avenger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This changes all Holy Avengers in the game to additionally have the
following characteristics:
Lawful: +2d6 vs. Chaos
Spell Process: Dispel Magic on Hit (Will save)

They are currently "good" but not "lawful", which makes little sense. In
addition, many people are used to the Dispel Magic on Hit ability from BG2.
Basically, no one is arguing that Cera Suma is too powerful in this game --
it needs all the help it can get, especially considering the difficulty in
obtaining it.

Two-Handed Greatsword Holy Avenger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This turns all Holy Avengers in the game into Two-Handed Greatswords. This
changes the amount of damage dealt, the range, and the number of hands
required. Everything is else unchange. You may use this component and the
Imp Holy Avenger one together if you like, or you may use just one of them.

This is useful if your paladin is going to use only Cera Sumat as a weapon,
because 1d8+5+STR just isn't enough to hurt powerful enemies.
2d6+6+(STR*1.5) is, however.

On the other hand, this means that you can't dual weild Cera Sumat and the
Golden Heart, or Cera Sumat and the Stunning Star of Speed, or Cera Sumat
and Cera Sumat.

NOTE: The textual description will not change, but the sword is really
two-handed.

 

K, first of all its not realistic to compare PnP with the computer version of the game. You hardly ever see level 28-30 characters running around in a party of 6 just to slay some demon halfbreeds in PnP.. Your characters in the game are following in the footsteps of the heroes of iwd1 and "saved the world." Unless your DM cheats for you, the items you get SHOULDN'T be as good. The game has MANY special +5 or more weapons and the Cera Sumat is one of the worst ones. Even the Light of Cera Sumat with its +10 bonus isn't enough to offset how much more difficult the enemies are.

IMO, Cowards Flight IS the best weapon in the game. In the hands of my barb, it deals massive damage, and also slows opponents down and makes them unable to fight. This allows my Pal (wielding the aformentioned CRAPPY LoCS) and my cleric (with the jacked up Xvim's Brutal Impact) to come in and finish the slaughter. As for where those two items are, to be honest, I completely forgot. I believe I bought Cowards Flight, or it was dropped somewhere aroud Kuldahar (maybe the fight against Saablic Tan.) Xvim's Brutal Impact was definitely in the Severed Hand, where the original Brutal Impact was dropped in the normal game. I think it may be dropped by the Tyrannar (who by the way, gives the best drops of any single character in the game.)
Unfortunately, those weapons come relatively late in HoF mode, and I wish the game was a little longer so I can get some more use out of them.
As for using the mods, I believe the first one improves it slightly, and makes it tolerable with the Golden Heart in HoF mode. The second one I haven't tried yet, mostly because I already spent points in Ambidex. and 2 weapon fighting.
I think more than anything if the game spaced out more +5 weapons starting from chapter 3 it would make playing more enjoyable. Also, the Cera Sumat's description, was like 3 pages.. Duke Ehld used THAT POS to beat the Fallen 6 by himself? I mean it took my party of 6 to beat their shades (who are supposed to be weaker.) What was Ehld, like level 45 or something?!

 

Thanks for the info.

Remember, Ehld fought the terrible 6 one at a time. Plus, he had some circumstances help him...ie summoned undead turing on the cleric, the mountain falling on the 1/2 giant, etc.

I hope my post didn't sound like complaining, I just was wondering what the better weapons were.

In my opinion, strong weapons are cool & fun, but can be a bit of a crutch. I've found the lack of good weapons forcing me to use my spells more wisely and to develop my players more carefully.

 

Yeah, I think it was one of the toughest battles.. but also perhaps the most interesting because you had 6 high level foes using relatively intelligent high level attacks on you and having high damage resistance.
I bet you'll enjoy it more without summons.

 

Daniel. No thanks. If I need a mod to make the sword good then it really is a POS.

VF6ALPHA
You are right that PNP is not the same as the computer game, but not being extreme (level 20+) paladins are so lame in the computer version. I am sure that they would be better in PNP.

Quint.
This was my point. The fight is way too hard even in easiest mode, to be believable for such a waste of time sword. BG2 had it better as far as balancing it out goes.

 

That was for Mathetais. He doesn't seem to think of it as tough..

 

When using the Weimers Ease-of-use mod where ir turns the Cera Sumat into a greatsword, does it still use the long sword for the specialization feat or does it now use the great sword feat? Did he remember to change that? Just wondering before I choose what to put feats in.

Thanks

 

Why do you bother with mods or alike to empower a sword? If you really want to get a powerful sword, you can cheat for an Armageddon's Blade 2002 which will kill most monsters with one hit.
So, if you don't like it, use another weapon. If you think there aren't good weapons in game, play another game. Just stop and enjoy the game. Because it is really fun to play. If you don't want it, kill 6 fallens for fun (although they are hard, the fight is great) and leave the area while 'CS'HA is lying on ground.

 

Quint ... I did alot of summons, but you know how they teleport your whole party to the middle of the graveyard when the sword appears??? My summons weren't teleported, nor did they follow. So after the fight was over, I had a couple boneguards, umber hulks and winter wolves looking at me with stupid expressions.

 

I'm partial to that axe that screams. I'm working on adding different lines when thrown and when it lands. (Hail to the king! Oooh, that's gotta hurt! etc)
Maybe make it conversable? Who knows..I'll keep you guys posted.

Gabriel