Bard spell recommendations:

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Any "must have" Bard spells? What do Bard spellbooks commonly look like?

[ March 01, 2007, 00:05: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]

 

It depends on the rest of your party.
In a party with 5 paladins the spell selection is of course different than in a party with 5 mages.

Bards can do somthing very well, and that is singing. They get so powerful songs that casting spells during combat is often less effective, therefore long lasting buffs which can be cast before combat work quite well.

I personally like having a healing spell of each level if possible since healing is also useful after combat.

 

Personally I do not like healing spells for a bard. Really. There are far more useful spells.

I generaly go for buffs first. All kind of armor spells are nice to have and use on party members. Chromatic orb is suprisingly effective for a lvl 1 spell, especially against enemies with low reflex saves, and when you have spell focus:evocation. Mirror Image is a must to have. Bull's strength and/or Cat's grace is also very useful. Blink works wonders in the thick of a combat. Enchantment spells are the main attack force of the bard though, nothing beats well placed Confusion+Dominate person, provided the bard has greater enchantment focus. Illusion summonings are the best. And then, there is Wail of the Banshee and Mass Dominate, all uber spells, but I have never seen my bard rise up to that level.

 

This is very true. The other arcane spellcasters in my party are a full time Sorcerer and a backup Illusionist. I also only plan on taking 11 levels as a Bard, and filling out the rest as a Sorcerer for this character. I have a Cleric and a Druid, so I don't think I'll be picking any "Cure" spells for my Bard, but if I do, the'y'll be the last spell chosen.

So far, at level 3, I've got Grease, Armor, and Charm Person for my Bard. I do plan on adding Chromatic Orb, but it doesn't get great until level 7, so I figured it could wait. I'll also have the choice of choosing it as a Sorcerer, but I could even choose it for both classes!

Edit: Here's my list:

Level 1: Charm Person, Grease, Armor, Chromatic Orb
Level 2: Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Eagle's Splendour, Mirror Image

Level 3: Confusion, Slow, and I'm not sure what else (Dispel Magic? any of the "Emotion" spells?)

Level 4 ismissal, Dominate Person, and Spirit Armor. It's too bad I can't work in Improved Invisibility.

[ February 28, 2007, 18:56: Message edited by: Klorox ]

 

Emotion Hope is a great buff spell, it lasts long enough and gives substantial bonuses. Just do not let your enemies get caught in its radius for it affects everybody. Other emotion spells seem weak and crappy.

 

For level2 I wouldn't take all three buff spells, only one of them.
It's better if your bard casts cat's grace and the sorc eagle's splendor, if both learn both you learn two other spells less. Bull's strength can be handled by the cleric since his other level 2 spells aren't that great.
I'd take invisibility and luck or blur or the cure spell instead.

 

Silver, I'm not so sure that I'd say that ALL of the other Emotion spells are all that weak. Emotion Fear can be a great spell for throwing an overwhelming mob of enemies into disarray. Yes, I would say that Em. Rage is rather weak, given that it somewhat overlaps with Hope and Hope is better. Despair might be a nice add to other saving throw lowering spells, but a 5 round duration isn't all that impressive.

In general, I find that the 5 round duration for all 3 emotion spells is pretty weak. Oh, I suppose if you're going to do a major pre-battle buff, Hope is a nice little enhancement on top of everything else and will give you a good start.

To be honest, it's too bad that the Emotion spells didn't have a 1 round/level duration. That'd probably make them a bit more valuable.

 

Emotion:Hope!

Well, it seems Emotion:hope is far superiour to all others as it has a duration of 50 rounds, which means 5 turns, which is more than enough for any major battle IMHO.

 

Silverstar, I was about to say that the 50 round reference was a typo, but I just went into the Emotion SPL files using DLTCEP. Initially, it did look as if all 4 Emotion spells only have a duration of 5 rounds, but just before I closed the Hope SPL file, I happened to notice that its simplified duration field was hardcoded to 50 rounds. It's strange, because the individual effects within the SPL file are set to 5 rounds, just like the other 3 Emotion spells. Very strange.

 

Crucis, read my topic about spell durations:

http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/14/2898.html

The bit that concerns me is the difference between simplified durations and the durations in the extended effect header. The above topic shows 4 10 round/level spells, all with different durations in the extended effect header!

I am still at a loss as to why!

As for Emotion: Hope, it is a double edged sword. If you use it pre-battle as a buff, then it is definately worth having for ANY spellcaster, but during a battle, Bards are a bad choice for this spell, because it is an Enchantment spell. The chances are your Bard will have GSF: Enchantment, meaning more monsters have a chance to fail the saving throw, thus gaining the bonuses!
The opposite goes for Emotion: Despair and Emotion: Fear, which suggests these are better spells for a Bard.

 

I'm at a loss as to why Hope is a 50 round spell, whereas the other 3 emotion spells are only 5 round spells. I checked out their descriptions in the 3.0 spec and they don't really have a true duration. They seem to only last as long as the caster maintains his concentration on keeping them active, which is probably not a valid method for IWD2. Still, it seems to me that all 4 emotion spells should really have similar durations. Perhaps something like 1 or 2 rounds/level.


Also, according to the 3.0 specs (if I read them correctly), Hope&Despair and Rage&Fear are supposed to be able to counter/negate each other.

Actually, I just checked out the 4 emotion spells and not one of them works only on enemies or only on allies. All four Emotion spells will affect EVERYONE in their area, according the the SPL file effects.

Of course, the advantage of the Fear or Despair spells is that you may just initially aim the spell to have its AoE well away from your own party. Of course, you could do that with Hope as well, before the baddies get too close, but that's little different than pre-battle buffing. I suppose this would qualify as pre-melee buffing.

 

I can verify firsthand that this happens in-game as well.

 

My wizard is a necromancer. With spell penetration +4 and SF: necromancy +4 he is an attack caster who is quite good at casting spells that damage or kill enemies. He cannot do illusion or enchantment spells but my bard can access all of the spells from those schools so they complement each other nicely. At each bard spell level I give her the healing spell and the mind control spell and then fill the other slots with protection or buff spells. My cleric of Lathander (who is more caster than fighter) also has a variety of protection and buff spells as well as the usual healing spells. With two casters capable of protecting and buffing the party I figured it was okay to let the wizard specialize in offensive magic. If it turns out later that he needs the enchantment/illusion spells then I guess I can just give him a level of sorcerer/cleric to get them back. I do not use the bard for summoning however, except for the barbarians from the magic horn. Between them and what the necro and cleric can summon I can usually maintain my limit of six through most battles.

BTW, do the bard's songs effect everyone (friend and foe) in the song radius? I read that the War Chant of Sith does but do the others as well?

 

Shadow Mage, I just checked out the songs' SPL files and they do, in fact, not affect enemies, except for the Siren's Yearning song which affects enemies, but not allies.

Let me repeat. The "buffing" songs only affect allies. And the Siren's Yearning song affects only enemies.

Which probably makes singing bard songs more effective in battle than casting the emotion spells. Save Emotion Hope for pre-battle buffing and Emotion Fear for casting against enemies that haven't gotten into melee range yet.

 

It's nice to know that the bard's songs do not affect enemies (except Siren's Yearning). But I wonder why so many people think that the War Chant of Sith benefits enemies as well as allies?

 

Because they're not paying attention?

 

War Chant of Sith is only effective when there is a battle going, therefore if it affects the enemies as well it will be a totally useless and stuuuupid skill.

It still sucks IMHO as you can not use it after battles to regain HP (you could in IWD!) But EoU modifies it to work even outside of the battles! Cool!

Then again if you have lingering song feat...hey, which bard does not have lingering song feat?

 

Oh yeah. If any class has one must have feat, it's bards and Lingering Song!

 

It doesn't help enemies though, does it?

 

No, it does not.