Yet another party thread, I bet you hate these

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I searched the forums, got some good advice, but this game is still mocking me.

It has been an age and a half since i've played an IE game, and the least of my time playing these games was with the crazy rules of IWD2.

So I am now gritting my teeth as I try and create a party, so I am now here, humbly asking for your IWD2 knowledge to help me build my dream party.

Although that is not to say the party is entirely unplanned! Not at all! Here is what I have so far:

• Four member party.
• Pure Tank (most likely Fighter(4)/Barb(x) any suggestions on this, i was thinking of evil shield dwarfs). I'm pretty confident of this party member, as Tanks is my best department, left clicking randomly = win.
• Pure sorcerer, possibly human, Drow or Aasimar. Can't decide which, please aid me with this selection.
• Third member, undecided, although I was thinking along the lines of a pure cleric, is it possible to choose one of the cleric schools that is tankish? I like tanks but I also like clerical goodness, so I would prefer a pure cleric if possible, with as much tank potential as possible.
• Fourth member I cannot settle on whatsoever, I know I should have two levels in Rogue no matter what I do with this character, it's this fellow who needs the most SP advice for creation.

Thanks a lot for going through yet another Party thread, but its not over yet, a few more queries:

What does the skill "Concentration" do in effect to non magic users? I remember once being told to take it for combat classes sometime.

Could you please point me in the right direction for skills and feats, statsa re ok for me because I don't mind min/maxing as its only a computer game and I like tough bastards! Also, the best weapon selections to make for my tanks, I generally take greatswords as they have a good reputation for dicing things up but I am unsure as to the weapon content of IWD2.

Oh yeah, one more thing, what is the best statistics for a party member suited for chatting to folk and getting all the responses? I believe i'll need one of these but I do not know whom.

Thanks for listening! Any help would be appriciated.

[ August 02, 2005, 17:24: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Evil shield Dwarf Barb(x)/Fighter (4) is a peerless tank. Good choice. The best Cleric for tanking work is another Shield Dwarf; this time look toward Battleguards. Some people like to multiclass these guys to fighter, but they're lunatics. The extra 4 levels make much more difference to a cleric in spells (never mind the benefit to the party) than Weapon Specialisation and a couple more feats ever will. Personally, I prefer human sorcerers (faster levelling for spellcasters = goodness ), but this is purely a matter of taste alone. Some prefer the bonus spells of the Aasimar. Avoid Drow; ECL+2 is too much, even if the SR is nice.

As for your 4th member... You could choose anything, really; the core of your party is there in those 3 (tank; arcane bombardier; healer). A male Drow Wizard (Enchanter)/rogue is no bad choice. Here, the ECL doesn't matter so much - he isn't your main caster, after all, just a back-up. You could even chuck in a halfling bard/rogue(2), for a laugh. Or how about the "confused Gnome": a Svirfneblin with one or two levels in every class he meets the alignment requirements for!

Personally, I'd look to the Drow Rogue/Wizard, to cover for Arcane magic that bit better. After all, spellcasters are the real power in IWD2, what with the way they "balanced" creature AC and AB.

EDIT: for conversations, you can look either to the Sorceror (this is one area where Aasimar may be better - more stats!) or the Drow. For the Drow, be fearless in your cutting of STR and CON to feed INT and CHA. The Sorcerer can live without STR and DEX to boost these. With the excess skill points, it should be trivial keeping Diplomacy and Bluff (Intimidate is only rarely useful) boosted.

Hope that helps, my good man!

 

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/icewind_dale_ii_upp.zip

Your party-setup seems very familiar. You might want to read this FAQ. I believe the answers to your questions will be there.

 

cheers for the response.

I think i'm gonna go with what you advised, Magpie.

Human Sorc, pure Battleguard and a Drow Mage/Rogue (who will also be my diplomat).

Is there any reason for an Enchanter over anything else?

 

The main reason is that your Sorc should be focussed on Evocation, for mass fireballing etc., so as that base is covered, it's ok to have it as the R/W's opposition school. Could equally be Conjuror (also has Evocation as opposition) or anything else, but that seems the most obvious, all told. It somehow seems right to have one concentrate on disabling spells, and one on damage, though. I also like that it ties in nicely with 2E restrictions on mage schools for elves! Of course, you could have both dishing out the pain, but it seems unnecessary. For the Sorc, concentrate on the Evocation school, and you'll cover everything. Avoid spells that become useless at higher levels (like Sleep or Horror), and have the Drow take these instead.

For the diplomat Drow, you'll probably want stats a bit like this:

STR 6
DEX 20
CON 10
INT 20
WIS 4
CHA 20

(I think that adds up ok, if not I'm going to use the excuse that it's too late at night to do maths!)

Obviously, he's not going near the front line! I find high DEX useful mainly because, as a support Wizard, he spends a lot of time using either a bow (if you go for the Rapid Shot feat) or crossbow (if you prefer to concentrate on caster feats). The AC can come in handy if things get hairy, though. Low WIS can be an issue, but here it's a matter of trusting in the Drow's innate SR to compensate. For levelling, you have a choice which stat to develop: either DEX or INT will help him, but for ultimate twinking, you probably want to go for INT (more skills, more spells). Obviously, make sure he's a he, to get the right favoured class.

That should just about cover it... If you start to slow down gaining XP, just chuck in another character: Ranger(1 or 2)/Druid can be interesting, as can the other ones mentioned, or a Monk of some kind. Just go with whatever floats your boat!

 

alright!

thanks a lot, i'll get on with making that now, i'll post my dudes once its done.

i can finally slap that party creation screen in the face!

SO WE HAVE!

****er, CE Shield Dwarf Fighter (4)/Barb (x)
18
16
20
3
18
1

Miserable, evil and stupid, but he knows how to kill.

Dr. Axes, CN Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus (x)
18
16
20
3
18
1

Miserable, not so evil and equally stupid, he knows how to kill and also how to put his wisdom to good use, for some strage reason he gets along well with his comrade, ****er.

Could they be brothers perhaps?

Sparks, NE Human Sorceress (x)
9
18
18
3
10
18

She isn't the sharpest knife either, but who needs sharp knives when you've got big explosions! I took Evocation twice as feats.

She likes to make people burn and doesn't mind if a dwarven ally is in the fray at the time.

Sylvester (Sly, geddit ) LE Drow Rogue(2)/Enchanter (x)
<stats posted already>

Ooh, weird one this one, the misfit of the group, I guess he is evil like the rest but is more of a mongrel than anyone else.

Cheers for the help, can anyone see any foreseeable problems with my merry band of arsekickers?

[ August 03, 2005, 03:20: Message edited by: Septic Yogurt ]

 

Looks fine. Only problem is that being a 4 man team they'll level up like the clappers and start getting xp penalties. The two ways around this are either to level squat (I'm not too good at the timing with this, so someone else can probably help you out more than I can) or to use a party comprised entirely of ECL races to keep the average party level down. I choose the latter, as demonstrated by my current party:

- Grey Dwarf Fighter x.
- Aasimar Paladin of Ilmater 2/Painbearer of Ilmater X.
- Deep Gnome Druid x.
- Drow Sorcerer.

That pretty much covers all the bases. You can get away without a rogue in IWD2 fairly easily, although they can save you a lot of bother. Also note that while wizards seem versatile and powerful, the availability of scrolls can limit their effectiveness, especially when your sorcerer has carpet bombing duties covered. My preference is to have a druid rather than a second arcane magic user as they have loads of cool area effect spells that slow down and hurt large mobs of enemies and go a long way towards stopping a small party getting overwhelmed. Making him a deep gnome also gives him loads of nice inherent abilities which carry over to his shapeshifted forms as well as loads of summons, timed attack spells like call lightning/static charge and a handy anchor on the party's average level.

Also, my preference is for an aasimar paladin/cleric. While she doesnt kick as much monster rump as the dwarven battleguard, her saving throws are through the roof and so she is almost always available to relieve other party members of debilitating ailments. She also has the ability to wield the holy avenger sword which further enhances her defences while boosting her combat skills as well.

Still, it looks like you wanted an evil party anyway, so it'd take some creative roleplaying to include one of those By the way, the only reason concentration is recommended for combat classes is that 4 points in the skill opens up the maximised damage feat. Its OK, but you can do without it. Up to you really.

 

Evil is a good move, as it renders you immune to Blasphemy...which you will appreciate a lot towards the end...

Also, if you're upto it, take Specialization in Polearms for the Massive Halberd of Hate, or Greatswords for Brilliant Greatsword +5.

 

well, i've finished the prologue, all my characters are level 3 and seem well rounded enough to take on everything thrown at them so far.

i think i might squat for now, until the battles become too difficult, if i remember correctly, i'll be coming up against crews of about 243214214 orcs in every area, hopefully at level 3 i will get 150 xp a pop, that will go a long way!

I just took toughness for the rogue/wiz/diplomat, as he has about the same number of HP as a premature baby.

 

Yeah, adding diplomacy to that guy's list of skills is really stretching the basic build about as far as it can go! Normally, I have someone else do diplomacy for this reason. That way, I have 15 extra points to pump other stats (usually CON and WIS first).

There aren't too many useful feats, so Toughness may not be a bad thing. I usually just keep him clear of the front line, though. Two tanks can usually hold up the melee attackers and everyone else. Personally, I think that a 5 feat investment for a measly +15 HP is pretty poor return; the +1/level variant in NWN is much better, and not unbalanced. I prefer to pump the Spell Focus feats; Necromancy is key to this character, as is Enchantment. Combat Casting comes in handy, too. Keep him at the back with a bow/crossbow, and he'll be fine!

 

The one thing that will make life easier for you is to have a high AC shield up front. Then your barb can use a good two handed or thrown weapon (axes, greatsword and later polearms for that guy, by the way) from well behind the sheild to decimate the enemy without risk to himself. That where your forth charecter would come into the picture. (And that's Confused Gnome™ to you Magpie.)

Make sure he has max Dex and 13Int to take Expertise feat. Give him the best AC increasing items and he should be ok. My DG Illusionist could get to 30AC easy by the time we traveled to the Shanegarn Dam. At the Wandering Village he is at 42AC, and all without needing spells. Nearly nothing can get past him long enough to get to my Barb, who in the mean time is busy choping heads.
The Sorc will hopefully come in handy later on when I get tired of killing the hapless idiots one at a time.

That 16Dex you have given you two dwarves could stand to be lowered. Well your barb will still want 14 Dex; you do want him to take the Dirty Fighting and Improved Critical feats.
Drow would have been the best race for your Sorc. The ECL penalty will be a boon by the time you get to chapter 2 and the MR doesn't hurt.

 

No, it certainly doesn't. In fact, the MR is essential!

This is mostly because I personally tend to play very blaster-heavy parties, where I just have all my characters as some sort of spell casting class, so that when any enemies turn up, I just cast my best nukes and they're all dead, or a couple are left over for mopping up.

Having all your characters immune to your own spells is a big help when you are contemplating on whether or not to let your characters go ahead with that quadruple sunfire when surrounded by Hook Horrors.

DG + Drow rule!

 

Better tank ideas than the barb 26 fighter 4 is found on the JUPP, particularly for the HOF mode.

But if you dont want to use them, i would recommend a pure paladin (drow) as with Draw Upon Holy Might the Strength and Con Bonuses at lvl 30 the Paladin has far more str and hitpoints to a pure barbarian, as well as a neat +10 Dex bonus, which allows you to nerf the Dex stat hard for harvest. You also get great saves and a turning ability.
The spell resistance offered by the Drow is an added bonus. Deep gnome can also be used, if you think a +4 AC bonus is worth a -2 str and a -6 Cha penalty

In addition, you get the Holy Avenger quest awards, the HA sword, The fiendslayer feat, and a decent selection of divine spells, notably DUHM, Holy Power and Heal.

Even more powerful is the Paladin 18/Sorc 12 or Paladin 18/Specialist Wizard 12.

My Stats for Pure Drow Paladin/ Paladin 18/Sorc 12
Str 18
Dex 8 (6)
Con 16
Int 5
Wis 13 (15)
Cha 20

My Stats for Drow Paladin 18/Spl.Wiz 12
Str 18
Dex 5
Con 16
int 16
Wis 11
Cha 14

Advantages of the Pure Paladin
Far More HP than the other options
Access to heal spell
Mighty Smites at +7 to hit(with Eagles Splendour) and a whopping +30 damage
Lay on hands is very useful (210 HP at lvl 30)

Advantages of Pal/Sorc, Pal/Wiz
Tensers allows Max Strength, with DUHM gives +8-14 Str and Dex, which with strength bonuses by level up and HA quest allow it to go over 40. Pure Pal can only get 37 Str. However cannot cast spells under Tensers.
Crucial Mirror Image spell, and Blur and Blink greatly increase survival chances.
Can function as a low level buffer.
Pal/Wizard also can learn skills and has a few extra feats.

If you are going the Sorc/pal and still want to use drow, i recommend getting all your sorc levels first, or get 4 sorc levels, then squat till you get 3 pal levels, and then get your pal levels to 18 after. (You can squat heavily at Sorc 4/Pal5, as he still packs a real punch at this stage, so you can get your pal levels with little Multiclass penalty)

Chevalier has a Wiz/Pal of Mystra Combo that is excellent and tested in solo play.

A pure cleric will also work, but you lose on smites and BAB and hitpoints, but gain more spells

I hope this helps.

 

The favourite class for a male Drow is Wizard, the Paladin of Mystra can multiclass to Wizard (i.e. not Sorcerer)without losing the ability to progress in the Paladin class, according to this, a Drow Paladin/Wizard is possible but a Paladin/Wizard will not progress further if you stop and switch to another class.
By the way if what I read in an old thread is right there is a bug with multiclass specialist which would enable such a Paladin/Specialist to learn -and cast- every spells in the game.