Yet Another Tiresome "Help With My Party" Topic

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Okay. Here's the drill. I'm new to the boards but not IWD2. I've played IWD2 a few times. I finished it once in normal mode, but have never played HoF.

I've read the UPP, the JUPP, and everything else for the budding powergamer. I've had mules; played around with level squatting, etc. in my past IWD2 sessions.

While the info I learned from the UPP guides was invaluable, I'm not, by nature, a powergamer. I'm strictly into CRPGs for fun and roleplaying.

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I recently designed a four-player party in which all four PCs have some sort of casting skill. The PCs are slated to develop like this:

LG Aasimar Paladin of Helm(X)/Fighter(4)~ Spokesman, Front-liner, longsword-and shield Paladin stereotype

CG Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus (X) ~
Front-liner, healing and buffing spellcaster, not worried about undead turning (thanks to the CHA modifier)

NG Human Sorcerer (X) ~ Walking artillery battery

TN Tiefling Rogue(2)/Wizard (X) ~ Utility thief, backup caster

Now, would there be any reason to have my wizard take a spell school? I basically want him to have the firepower of the sorc coupled with the much-touted "wizard versatility". I don't want to lose conjuration, evocation, or necromancy, and I can't think of any reason to roleplay the wizard as a "diviner" just to cut corners and get a boost in a spell school I rarely use.

I'd welcome any comments about how to develop my wizard/rogue - or my party - so my somewhat-merry band of hapless adventurers doesn't get mashed into pulp halfway through the game.

[ June 08, 2007, 16:42: Message edited by: Elthas ]

 

You don't get any boosts to a school by specializing in that. It only restricts you from casting spells from one or two schools and gives you one more spell/lvl to cast from any other school!

Are you planning on playing through HOF? In that case your tank becomes next to worthless there.
Otherwise your party looks good.

For normal mode your pal/fighter is good. He won't be a good spellcaster anyway and have a hard time distributing ability scores. You could consider making him a pal3/fighter X so you don't have to spend points in wis, but if you feel that you have enough points in cha, str, con and about 10-12 dex and still some left then some spells can be somewhat useful (like DUHM)!

The cleric is good. Here in SP you can find a list with the domain spells. If you like the battleguard-spells then pick him. Otherwise you could consider making him a fighter1/cleric of your favorite order (fighter for weapon proficiencies) or just make him pure cleric and spend one feat on your favorite weapon (axe or greatswords are the best). The weapon focus that battleguards gain isn't much better than WP. The only difference is +1 to hit.

Turn undead is not that useful in IWD2. There are some weapons that disrupts undead on hit (they get a saving throw). That weapon makes you wish all enemies were undead!

Your sorc looks fine.
The rogue/wiz should start with a rogue-lvl for maximized skill points and then take wizard lvls until you start having a hard time finding spells or reach spell lvl 9. Then you can take the second rogue-lvl.

 

No matter which school you choose, there will always be spells you rather not lose but unless it' s my only arcane caster, the Rogue1/ Diviner X is my fav. "Rogue". It's easy to cover Conjuration with your other characters:

- Chromatic Orb: Sorcerer
- Symbols: Cleric
- Summonig: use Animate Dead instead, I hardly ever use any other summons.

I find +1 spell/ level quite valuable, especially at higher levels so that compromise seems fair.


about the Paladin: the F4/Pala x is nice but his spell casting will be poor, especially since those fighter levels will slow him down even more. In my last game I had a Aas Pal2 / Cleric X/ Fighter X ( Cl and F split levels 50/50) and was quite impressed. He sacrifices a few HP and some BAB but gains Domain spells and abilities, Spontaneous Casting and the ability to use all cleric wands and scrolls - a bit of extra healing in the early chapters and sombody to raise your cleric in the later chapters.

 

I probably won't be doing HoF with this party.

Exactly...I'm going to start him at rogue for the skill points and take the second level later.

The Aasimar paladin is simply a roleplaying choice...favored class and all. I figured a weapon specialization in either longsword, bastard sword, or something two handed would help him duke it out on the front lines. With the pally I'm mainly thinking he'll be getting some bonus stuff that most fighters don't get (Lay on Hands, Disease Immunity). Whether or not these are worth it I'll discover when I play him.

To both of you, THANKS A MILLION for your expertise and for taking the time to help me out!

 

I quite often start thinking that my tanks should cange a few fighter-type lvls for some cleric/druid lvls for some backup spells. I always end up with the conclusion that the most effective is just to make the tanks taking only one fighter-type lvl (for proficiencies) and the rest in either cleric or druid.
For non-powergaming you can still have one that's not a caster and you won't suffer much.

Edit: I seldom advise others to powergame too much although I usually play with more optimized parties myself.

[ June 08, 2007, 21:02: Message edited by: Mudde ]

 

Elthas: One way to make the Paladin/fighter usefull even in HOF (and usually just as good in normal as well) is to make him as some have mentioned earlier here into a cleric. Example Paladin 2/Cleric X Asimar, or even Paladin 3/fighter4/clericX for human (takes a good bit longer, but will give you the weapon specialisation, and if you take pal and fighter levels first you get that +6/+1 secondary attack at level 6 (earliest) which can be handy).

Cleric looses very little compared to fighter in combat, and a paladin 1/cleric X will fight nearly as good as a pure paladin. With spells/buffs usually as good or even better at later stages. Just a thought if you wanted a bit more spellcasting.

Been using a couple of paladin2/cleric X Asimars myself latelly, quite like them. Also I know there are split oppinions on this, but in general I dislike Weapon Specialisation. Spending two feats to do a measly +1 hit and +2 damage in a single weapon just feels so useless when there are generally lots of other feats at start of the game.

 

I like wizards better. Their high INT benefits them skill-wise, and they have earlier access to highest spell levels, and they are very flexible and versatile, can prepare and cast lots of different spells according to problem at hand. They also get a bonus feat at every 5 lvls. (that's a lot of extra feats!) BUT they lack the missile weapon proficiency (odd) but they can still use crossbows. (weird again. Must be because I prefer old-school 2e.)

Sorcs are all with fire-power. They are good at casting the same spells non-stop. They also have talking skills as class skills (being charismatic and all) so it may be a bonus too.

Be sure to get all spell-oriented feats. Namely, (greater) spell focuses:necromancy, alteration, evocation, enchantment. These really make your spells extra extra strong and very difficult to resist. Spell Penetration is not very essential IMHO as you will have high casting level already and can use Lower Resistance. (even paladins get this spell at very high lvls)Pick an elemental feat (and only one according to the spells you picked as a sorc, fire is always a good choice though) ASAP.

As for sorcerer spell picks, there are many polls and guides around, but good choices are almost always easy.

 

Silverstar, old school 2e aside, it makes vastly more sense for a mage to have a cross bow prof rather than a sling prof. As simple as a sling may appear, it actually takes a great deal of skill to use. I saw a History Channel show that was about the story of David and Goliath and they showed just how difficult (as in, VERY) it was to master a sling.

Crossbows were, as I understand it, just about the most idiot proof missile (launcher) weapon of that era. Easy to aim, and just pull a trigger. Crossbows require much less skill to use. As long as you have the strength to pull back the string, you can use a crossbow.

 

I like BOTH wizards and sorcs, so I think one of each fits the bill perfectly in my party. If IWD2 were an actual "roleplaying" experience, I'd have the two constantly trying to one-up the other!

@ Crucis: Dead on about the crossbow. It was, historically, a "point and shoot" weapon. There were many ways to reload them (crank, lever, leg and leather strap), but no actual crossbow/arbalest reloading process, as you know, was as "simple" as it is in our CRPGs.

IMHO the English Longbow was a much more devastating missile weapon by comparison, but its effectiveness in battle often relied on volley fire and trajectory -- thus requiring more training and skill to use.

 

Alas, 3e rules don't exactly favor fighter types, clerics make better tanks in every conceivable way. Sure, fighters get extra attacks a level or two faster, but clerics put theirs to much better use.

Ask yourself, which is better: A wee bit quicker access to 1 extra attack/round (both still cap at 4 att/rnd by lvl 20 anyway), +2 damage per hit (clerics can get WF feat too) and +2 hitpoints/level compared to +4 to hit, +5 to damage (bless/prayer/recitation/holy power), effectively 2d8+double CON bonus hitpoints per level due to insta-cast Heal and so forth..

 

Update: So far I have made it through Targos unscathed with the party (haven't had much time to play since posting this topic). I decided to go straight Pally with my Aasimar and drop the fighter levels. I didn't make the wizard a diviner, but kept him generalist. He has one lvl of Rogue. My sorc is still the star of the party...she's a dedicated damage-dealer as the gerealist wizard handles all of the non-combat arcane spellcraft at this juncture.

Thanks to all of you for your help here!

 

@Elthas, I think that the "simplest" crossbow reloading process was the one used by the Chinese repeating crossbow. I remember seeing a bit on it on the History Channel (yeah, I like the HC). The Chinese repeating crossbow is no more difficult to reload than a pump shotgun. Even more idiot-proof than the standard xbow. Not as great a range, but an excellent rate of fire at shorter range. (And supposedly, users of the ChXbow would put poison on their bolts to make them all the more dangerous to anyone hit by them.)

 

@crucis:

Great info... I'll have to read up more on the Chinese repeating crossbow!

 

I know you're not powergaming, but your party would be so much more powerful if you add a level of Paladin to your Sorcerer (if you insist on making him a single-classed character, I highly suggest playing as a Drow).

The Tiefling Rogue/Wizard would also greatly benefit from a racial change to Drow (male of course). I'd suggest a LN, LE or NE alignment and adding just 1 level of Cleric of Bane in there. The boosts are really great.


EDIT: Just noticed you already started. The party is good as is, and I wish you luck!

 

@Elthas, you can check out the Chinese repeating xbow on Wikipedia. They have a decent article about it there.

Basically, there was a box on top of the main body of the shaft that held the bolts. The string was threaded thru the box in some manner. And after you fired a shot, you merely lifted up the box and then returned it back down to the xbow's backbone (whatever its called), which would have the effect of pulling the bowstring back into firing position and loading the next bolt. Like firing shells from a pump shotgun, a mildly trained peasant would fire off bolts from this repeater at something like a round ever 2-3 seconds (taking a wildish guess). I saw a replica being fired in rapid succession on the History Channel and it is a VERY impressive weapon for such low tech. And imagine the amount of firepower that a few dozen guys armed with these things could put out. Ouch!


BTW, I included a pseudo-chinese repeating xbow in my Light of Selune IWD2 mod, which can be downloaded on this very site.