barbarian multiclassing

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I am thinking of giving my barbarian two levels of rogue (for improved evasion and extra reflex save). What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

I don't see I am losing much. Just +1 to hit, and I get those special abilities later. I don't use rage very much as it is. For some reason, the STR bonus from rage does not stack with bull'strength - even cancels this spell - which I find quite annoying.

Also, what do you suggest I put extra points in: STR or CON? So far I am 18/18 in both. I'll be soon at lev 8, so I'll have to pick something.

 

the difference between STR and CON is a personal choice, they both have advantages. STR will let you hit things for 1 extra damage for every 2 points, con will let you have an extra HP for every 2 points in it...at level 8 with both at 18, it doesnt help either, and at level 12 (your next point) you only have a few levels left to go (18 if you go to 30) which means only about 30 extra hp and 2 to fortitude save rolls...
Overall i think str is better, more damage, more AB (always helpful) but it is a personal preference and it really depends on party. If you have someone to heal, 30 hp isnt much (and fort saves should be high anyway).

Improved Evasion takes 10 rogue Levels.

 

Regular evasion (Rogues level 2 Monks level 1) can help (throw a fireball while your Rogue or Monk is in the fray).

 

well you're gonna need someone with rogue levels....if you already have a rogue, at's not gonna help that much, but if you dont, well...i like to start off as a rogue for a level or 2, then go barbarian.....backstab with greataxe... but you can split it even as well, if you're gonna backstab much

 

At least Rogue level 3 if you want to backstab since it would get you an extra D6 damage, but if you go beyond, you are going to lose on the Barbarian side (one of my favourite character is a bad ass Halfling Barbarian/Rogue: lovely ).

 

Don't the evasion levels stack in this game? I thought 3e rules said a barbarian who has evasion from barb class and gets evasion from a second class (rogue) will automatically get improved evasion. Or is that not implimented (properly, like improved initiative) here?

 

okay, I was not very clear. I was refering to simple evasion (the one which allows you to completely save vs fireball, lightning bolt, etc.) So this is a Rogue lev 2 ability. The one at lev 10 (which allows to save when you'd normally die) I think is almost worthless.

And in 3.5E, I think barbarians got some Dodge ability (like the rogues). But I did not see this mentioned in the manual for IWD2, so I do not if it still holds.

About ability points: I am at level 8, with 18STR/18CON. So I have another 3 points to distribute. So +2 to CON would mean +16 hit points toward the end of the game. Not so great (especially since up to now my barb stays behind the front line - on account of the extra attack he gets with throwing axes). So I think I'll go STR.


backstabbing: I did not think about this. Sounds interesting, but there's the problem what will happen afterwards. From what I saw so far, monsters in IWD tend to be not very forgiving, and having my barb in the middle of a large group might prove tough to handle. Well, maybe when i'll get some crowd control spells for my mage i'll try.

Caradhas: it wouldn't happen that your barb/rogue character is inspired by the Order of the Stick comic, would it?

 

there isnt a barb/rogue in order of the stick; the lady is a rogue and the halfling is ranger/barb....(god im a freak)

anyway, i didnt know the barbarian rage ability 'overrides' buff spells?

 

improved initiative is implemented exactly like it is stated on the feat screen.

also, it shouldnt override buff spells. the game uses the highest strength modifier applied i thought...

[ July 17, 2005, 23:16: Message edited by: MindChild ]

 

@khaavern: Barbarians (level 2 and incidentally Rogues level 3) get Uncanny Dodge in Icewind Dale 2, is this what you are referring to?
About the Halfling: this little fellow is indeed inspired by Belkar Bitterleaf (I made him NE!)

@Arianyr: I remember reading that Belkar backstabbed his foes which means he must have some Rogue levels even though he is introduced as a Ranger and clearly multiclass into Barbarian at a later stage... Nevertheless in IWD2 Rangers aren't that great (two feats aren't worth getting some XP penalty) so I'd rather play a Barbarian/Rogue and make him a Forester if I feel bad about it

 

Caradhas: Evasion and Uncanny Dodge are different abilities. It is true that barbarians get U Dodge too, though (although the manual for IWD doesn't mention it).

Unfortunatelly, rage not only overides Bull's Strength, it cancels it completely (so after the rage subsides, you have no STR modifier). That happened to me regardless of the fact that the modifier from Bull's was +5, while the one from rage is +4. There must be some bugs in the implementation.

 

hm...they both use the same effect # to add to strength, thus, when it overrides that (strange that a lower modifier overrides it...) the timer gets overridden as well...i can think of 2 ways of kinda fixing it:

Check for modifier value first and apply it if its larger, or a little more buggy:
add the modifiers. the problem is the timer would be unaffected or affected and applying the second effect's timer would make it very difficult.

unfortunately, if the first "fix" is implemented, negative strength bonuses wouldnt work if you had a +str...it would have to be a complex check *sigh*

Does anyone know if its possible to apply the same effect number in the new effect entry on a character?

[ July 18, 2005, 08:08: Message edited by: MindChild ]

 

@Khaavern: I know these are different abilities (read my first post)

Evasion: Rogue level 2, Monk level 1

Uncanny Dodge: Rogue level 3, Barbarian level 2

 

My reference was to the actual rule in 3e. (+4 to initiative chacks) What the feat screen says is completely different (-1 to speed factor down to 1 iirc) and from what I've heard/read from other players, not truly used. Because of this, I don't take improved init. Programmers must've changed the rules to suit their game in regards to this and many others.

 

well, i can tell you it is truly used and does remove 1 from the weapon speed (i did some code digging in that section and watched it do just that). It also does remove 1 from the casting time already as well.

 

Barbarian and sorcerer are a great mix IMO, as you can gain the hp and speed and resistances of the barb with only a few levels and add the spellcasting powers of the sorcerer.

And that half-orc barb-fighter Droblag with his greatsword provided reliable melee power to my party, and has been one of my favs in the game.

 

Well, I am afraid sorcerer is out of question, since he would only be able to cast negative level spells I had to skimp on some stats after all

MindChild: how do you do all this code digging? Is the source code available on our computers? I was asumming there would be only the binaries.

Another question : are armor penalties implemented in this game? My barb is wearing chain mail for some time now (armor penalty -5) and I was expecting this would kill completely all his atempts at Hide and Move Silently. But it does not seem to have affected it.

 

OT:
well, i use a program called ollydbg which doesnt decompile and give C++ source, but it does disassemble and give assembly source (more difficult to understand im afraid). Over the last few years i was into a lot of code editing in diablo 2 mod making and that helped me learn some assembly. I set breakpoints and trace code to find out what it does basically.

Armour penalties should be in there (havent checked). I would assume that if your skills are high enough (or if there arent monsters around) it would work anyway regardless. there is also some delay between the time it fails while hidden and the time you become unhidden so watch the combat log to see if you fail a check around enemies even if you dont unhide until you attack.