New to the game - rate my proposed party

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Hi guys, just ordered IW2 and it's due to arrive tomorrow. I'm fairly familiar with D&D although it's been a while. What I'm looking for is some feedback on my proposed party (I haven't worked out the races for each yet):

Fighter
Paladin
Rogue
Cleric
Wizard
Sorcerer

 

That party would do fine, but you will also have to consider what race to make them, and also whether or not you plan to multiclass any of the characters.

 

I was thinking about having my rogue be a rogue/cleric for the extra healing. How do you think that would work? Also, what are good races for each class?

 

You could have a rogue / cleric, but then you would need to spend stats on Dex, Int, and Wis so it would be an interesting exercise. No charisma or strength for that character. Also, to avoid multiclassing penalties it would have to be Human, Half-Elf, Halfling, Female Drow, or keep the two classes equal as you level up.

 

How powerful are rogues? I know they are great for traps/lockpicking but how is there damage as the game progresses? Is this a class I could "sacrifice" a bit by multi-classing? Or should I have my wizard or sorcerer muti-class to be a cleric as well? I guess I'm worried that with just a cleric and a paladin I may not have enough healing. Are a cleric (pure) and a paladin sufficient healing?

 

1) Rogues are not all that essential in IWD2. If you like backstabbing / hiding / and doing other roguey things, then go for it. But a Rogue 1 / Wizard X with high INT can easily handle all the traps etc in the game. So yes, Rogue is definitely a class that can be sacrificed with multiclassing

2) One pure cleric should be able to provide all the healing you need.

 

Tiefling would also be an option for a cleric/thief. If you're planning on dumping CHA anyway, it might be a good option.

 

You don't need a second cleric.
Because of the spontaneous casting one cleric gets enough healing spells for the whole party.
My dwarven cleric with 20 con only died once in the whole game, and then a back-up cleric to raise him wouldn't have helped since he wouldn't have survived either.

Rogue levels aren't needed at all. A wizard with high int and dex can handle all rogue skills.
But pure rogues can also be powerful. Their BAB progression isn't much slower than the fighters'
and they gain 1-6 extra sneak attack damage every two levels, many skillpoints and a lot of very useful advantadges like evasion.

 

A lot of people skip on the rogues, since you can handle their skills with other characters who have high DEX and INT.

But, as kmonster mentions, they do get lots of other advantages that are useful. Even just the 2 levels of rogue for evasion come in handly.

However, I like high level rogues purely for their sneak attack damage. It is extremely powerful when implemented correctly. Plus (and the biggest reason for me), it's a lot of fun!

 

High level rogues are fun, I have decided that I will have a pure dedicated rogue for my next run! (well, maybe I will add one fighter or ranger level for extra weapon proficiencies )

 

For backstabbing fun Ranger 1/Rogue X is nice. I also tried a Paladin 2/Rogue X (kinda nasty but needs CHA). A Monk 1/Rogue X is not as silly as it looks even if you don't get high WIS, you'll benefit from a +2 to all saving throws which is nice for evasion and will protect your Rogue in the middle of the battle when your Sorcerer with Greater Spell Focus Evocation will start throwing fireballs and such around (and your Rogue will be able to use Monk only items as well).
A good backstabber would be a Cleric (Mask) -up to 4 levels or maybe 6 if you solo/Rogue X some spells help a lot... Sneak attacks work wonders against stunned or sleeping foes.

Of course a Rogue is never going to kill somebody as fast as a Sorcerer can (at least in a straight fight). But Rogues are fun.

Throwing WoB and Fingers of Death all around the place can be the answer to almost anything but it bores me.

If you only use your Rogue for disarming traps and unlocking locks then you don't need more than 2 levels in a Mage build like kmonster and Acrux said.

 

Can there be paladin/rogues? I thought rogues could not have LG alignment? (or was it 2e rule? )

Monk/rogue sounds cool. Can they sneak attack with their fists?

Ranger seems to add the most benefit to character with only 1 level:Extra martial weapon proficiencies and dual-wielding ability when wearing light armor. (which you should wear anyway!)

 

Thanks for all the replies. I think I do like the idea of having a pure rogue or a ranger 1/rogue x (or something similar). How does sneak attack work after the initial attack? My understanding (limited) is that you are in stealth mode and attack normally from behind. After that, however, how does sneak attack work throughout the rest of combat?

 

I like to try out mega multi-classes, so I've tried out a Fi4/Pal3/Rang3/RogX (powergaming stats: STR 8; DEX 18; CON 13; WIS 3; Int 16; CHA 18).

Similarly, I've tried a Fi4/Pal3/Monk3/RogX. The stats are pretty tough with this one. In this case, the character wouldn't be much good at thieving skills, but has excellent dodge capabilities/saving throws and is a nice backstabber. (STR 8; DEX 18; CON 11; WIS 18; INT 3; CHA 18).

 

For sneak attacks you don't have to be hidden, if an enemy prefers attacking your mage and shows his back to your rogue he will hurt a lot.

I don't recommend taking a ranger level for your thief.
2-weapon fighting isn't useful. 2-handed weapons are much better. A barbarian level would yield more benefits, higher speed is useful for a scout.

@silverstar: paladin/rogue is possible, only paladin/bard doesn't work. Rogue/monk sounds weak. Either low fist damage or low backstab bonus (or even both).

 

Related to your party, I would have the paladin as a party-leader.He is more charismatic and let's be honest...paladins are ment to lead!(my favourite class is the paladin because it combines cold-blood fighting with a noble religious mentality)

 

That's a perfectly viable party. But yeah, make the paladin or the sorcerer the part leader. You need someone with big Charisma and Diplomacy for the talking. And for prices in shops. Your sorcerer will have a higher CHA score than your paladin, so it's up to you. I have a preference towards melee-based party leaders but spellcasters won't really die just because of marching ahead a bit.

 

kmonster, 2H weapons are only good for a rogue, if you've built a really strong rogue. However, if you've built a lesser STR rogue, 1 handed weapons are just fine. And even moreso, if you intend to use the Weapon Finesse feat (to use DEX, instead of STR, for your attack bonuses), since you'll be limited to short swords and daggers.

If you intend to use a rogue for a lot of sneak attacking, it doesn't really matter all that much if you're using a dagger or a greatsword, the really heavy damage from a sneak attack comes from the sneak attack bonus damage, which is unrelated to what melee weapon you have in hand. That is, a rogue can be a sneak attacking monster with only a mere dagger, provided that the rogue is a fairly pure and has lots of rogue levels.

 

Crucis, even if you have a rogue with only 10 str he'll do 2-12 damage with a greatsword compared to only 1-6 damage with a short sword. That's the as much as the sneak attack damage for 2 rogue levels.

Lets compare a strength-based barbarian1/rogue15 build with a dex-based one, both wearing leather armor.

Strength based with 22 str (30 with champion's strength) using the "massive halberd of hate" (I ignore the other bonus):

To hit: 12+4+10(str) = 26
Damage: 6-20 + 15 (str) + 8-48 (sneak attack) = 29-83 damage (56 average).

Dex based: 10 str (18 with CS), 22 dex, weapon finesse, short sword +5.

To hit: 12+5+6(dex) = 23
Damage: 6-11 + 4(str) + 8-48 (sneak attack) = 18-63 damage (40.5 average).


The strength based build is far superior. Because of his long range weapon he'll get in more sneak attacks in normal combat since enemies won't turn around to face him if he doesn't get too close.
He has far better to hit and gets 56 instead of 40.5 average damage, that's the sneak attack damage difference of more than 4 rogue levels.

If you intend to use a rogue for a lot of sneak attacking, 3 AB and 15 damage difference each time do really matter a lot.