Solo: What's the Best AC? (Spoiler)

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I've got a little challenge for you.

I want to do a solo character game that can make it through the HoF mode. From what I understand, everyone seems to take a "summon-an-insanely difficult-creature-to-do-your-dirty-work" approach. Let's try a different path with summoning (while still allowable) isn't as important.

The "can't-be-hit" approach sounds good to me. What's the best AC can a solo character reach that's workable in HoF? Thus, a strengh of three isn't probably gonna work. I've been thinking about this and I can only get the AC in the mid-60's--far too low in the HoF mode. No potion usuage unless its effects are permanent.

 

Apparently, it is possible to get to 72 or 73 (although don't know if that is possible solo). Jukka will be able to supply the details. It requires a deep gnome with massive wisdom and dexterity, and about 2 hours worth of buffing (which is why I'm not sure if it can be done in solo).

 

A Deep Gnome Illusionist[17]/Druid[12]/Monk[1]?
10-20-10-13-20-1

Base: 10
Dex:5 (upto 10 with Slippers n Cat's Grace)
Deflection: 5 (Ghost Armor)
Armor: 6 (Spirit Armor)
Wisdom:5

From JUPP:
Brazen Bands (normal)/Indomitable Bands (HOF) give +5
Fire Dance Talisman (normal)/Sunfire Talisman (HOF) give +1/+3
Swing From the Masts (normal)/Crow’s Nest (HOF) give +1/+3
Deep Gnome racial ability gives +4
Dodge feat gives +1
Expertise feat gives +5 max when activated
Barkskin druid spell gives +3 to +5, max bonus at druid level 12
Haste spell (or Mass Haste) gives +4
Tenser’s Transformation spell gives +4 (on top of higher DEX bonuses, which could drive up the AC further upwards)

Thats a total of 70.

 

Good try, Shrikant, and with no offensive intended, let me destroy that plan...

The slippers and Cat's Grace are mutually exclusive. The bandana (Swing/Masts & C. Nest) requires a least one level in rogue. Intelligence too low to cast spells beyond third. Keeping high points in dex gives an inate AC bonus and high points wisdom is a must as it allows AC bonus from the monk level. Being an Illusionist doesn't allow you to cast Spirit Armor since its from an opposing school, necromancy. While T. Transformation is nice it prevents one from casting Draw Upon Holy Might with any real benefits, if one were to add cleric levels (wisdom as primary works well with your druid and monk combo). Complete level up gives you 7 more stat points. *Smiles*

Other ideas?

EDIT: Deleted two lines.

EDIT #2: The following section below this paragraph. I didn't know the board STOPS double-posts. That's just stupid that it has to be a rigid, "unbreakable" rule. I understand the reason why, but it should be a guildline or recommendation, instead of coercing people not to post... Well, enough griping. Here's the post (thank goodness that I copied it first).

Whoa, I just figured out how to get an AC of 70 barring potions and any stat increases from any special missions. It is, however, taken into account the extra 7 bonus pts for stats. Also, I was figuring this with total disregard of experience penalities; thus, it may not even be possible.

Here's my breakdown & by all means, please feel free to find any errors or better yet, how to make it better.


---
Race: Deep Gnome w/ starting stats of 20 in dex & wis & 14 int.
Reason: +4 Generic AC & max start in dex & wis


---
Class (no particular order):
7 levels in conjurer or enchantment as specialist (Conj & Ench are EXACTLY THE SAME despite what the manual says; pick either-or for RPing purposes), or wizard
Reason: Has access to the extremely important illusion spells, necromancy for Spirit Armor, conjuration for Ghost Armor, tran for Haste
HOWEVER, if you pick Conj or Ench then you won't get access to the evocation school--also think about how many time you're likely to cast evocation spells after buffing & will the enemies make their saves? Your call.

1 level in Monk & Rogue
Reasons: AC bonus from WIS & allows character to use bandana, respectively

3 levels in Druid
Reason: Barkskin (Yeah, that's it)

18 Levels in Cleric
Reason: Draw Upon Holy Might & Healing
Hence, all 30 levels used


---
AC Breakdown:
Alright, here we go!
10 Base
4 Racial
1 Dodge Feat
5 Expertise Feat (on at 5)
4 Haste 3rd level spell (3rd) at 1 round/lvl (r/lvl)
5 Ghost Armor (3rd) at 5 r/lvl (Ignoring Divine Shell; using DS gives another +1 AC)
6 Spirit Armor
5 I. Bands
3 S. Tailisman
3 Crow's Nest
5 Draw Upon Holy Might calculated at cleric level 18
2 Every God Ring (a +5 Wisdom)
8 Wisdom at 27
1 (Every God Ring & Wisdom at 27 give +11 AC)
5 Dex at 20
3 Barkskin at Druid level 3
---
70

This character even has access to 9th level spells!!! It's gonna be an interesting character to play since this character isn't extremely powerful in the offensive, but you can't deny the FUN factor of it all!! Spells all over the place & even with the RP part of it, can hit with fists even!

[ September 20, 2004, 09:32: Message edited by: CIS ]

 

One huge problem with your character, CIS: XP penalties. Also, even with an AC of 70, expect to be hit quite a few times (see Jukka's JUPP)

Also, Shrikan't char can actually get to level 9 spells if he invests a few level-up stat points in INT.

 

"One huge problem with your character, CIS: XP penalties."

I'm aware that this may be a problem and have already mentioned it. I said "Also, I was figuring this with total disregard of experience penalities; thus, it may not even be possible.".

However, you can ease through it by taking the monk, rogue, and druid classes in the later level ups. Also, sitting awhile with your character for leveling up is possible.

"Also, even with an AC of 70, expect to be hit quite a few times." What AC do you need to be safe?? It is no matter, one can up the AC even further using Divine Shell, a couple potions of Holy Transference that you get through the game (-1 Dex for +2 Wis), and if the Cleric is a LN Dreadmaster of Bane, then you can capitalize on the Banite special mission which (from what I hear) once completed gives the cleric an automatic +2 wisdom.

AC total using Divine Shell = 71
AC total with DS & 2 potions of Holy Transference (normal and HoF) = 72
AC total with DS, 2 potions of H.T., & doing Banite quest twice (normal & HoF) = 74

Alternatively, using a cleric of Helm and using its shield ability gives an AC of 70 (previous post) + 2 = 72
AC total with DS & Helm's Shield (I think's what it's called) = 73
AC total with DS, Helm's, & 2 potions H.T = 74

By the way, do you know how to do that Banite quest?

 

According to the JUPP, you need an AC of 72 in order to be hit only by a natural 20.

I didn't have a Dreadmaster of Bane and so never completed the quest, but you will probably find the answer in the walkthrough on this site.

 

Some clarifications.

AC 72 forces the nastiest of all the 'common' enemies, Slayer Knights of Xvim, to roll 20 to hit you. However, there's a few bosses with even higher BAB - most notably Chahopek, Captain Pudu, all Chimeras and Isair&Madae.

If you're going solo, then I'd suggest the following:

Deep Gnome Rogue(2)/Monk(2)/Druid(3)/Dreadmaster(2)/Illusionist(21)
STR10 DEX15 CON10 INT18 WIS18 CHA1

While you technically only need one level of monk, rogue and dreadmaster for the class benefits, taking two of each removes the exp penalties since you'll need at least 3 levels of Druid for barkskin.

AC breakdown:

10 (base)
+7 Shield spell (see note below)
+5 Ghost Armor spell
+4 DEX bonus (with Slippers and -2 pts for potions)
+14 WIS bonus (level-ups, potions, quests, ring)
+10 race & feats
+11 equipment
+7 haste & barkskin
Total = 68, 73-76 with Tenser's active

Note that while Illusionists do not get access to Shield spell in normal circumstances, adding levels in other caster classes removes this limitation.

If you can live with lower INT, STR and/or CON, you could push the AC all the way to 72 without Tenser's by improving DEX & WIS and using one potion of Clear Purpose so that you can up you DEX with the last level-up point.

 

AC has no meaning in the Dragon fights. They have very high BABs.
Those blurred Bladesingers in the Fields of Slaughter too seem to hit you regardless of AC.
Even the guys in the Lost Followers quest.
Xvim too can seemingly hit you at will.
Also in the Battle Squares where there is a time limit within which you have to get rid of the creature high AC wont really help you.

Other than this the Slayer Knights of Xvim seem to have their BABs capped at 52 in HoF mode.
Other creatures have lesser BAB.
This is why the magical AC is 72 whereby you can get through pretty much all the game without being hit.

Of course the problem is when you get hit its generally a Critical Hit.
As such you cant get by with a lower AC, that progressively increases in every chapter.

@ CIS
Dont be bothered with XP penalties. Its a solo anyways.
Also DUHM at L18 gives you +6Dex, ie +3AC.

 

Shirikant, I can assure you that none of Bladesingers, Dragons, Lost Followers nor Xvim has unlimited BAB - they're just pretty high.

A tank with AC in the low 70's can kill the Lost Followers all by him/herself, I've tried it. Yes, in HOF mode.

Also, you're missing one of the best aspects of high AC - not only do enemies have a hard time hitting you, they can NEVER critically hit you either. You maybe forgot that rolling a natural 20 is only a critical THREAT - you need to succeed in the threat roll for it to become a critical?

 

Argh!! The computer froze, had to restart, and lost the very detailed post that I had. Damnit! It pisses me off.

Well, here's the jest... ugh...

I figured out the Banite quest. I tried it before but it didn't work since my Dreadmaster was either energy drained or level drained. Just kill the other Banite in the graveyard without having such said afflications and your Dreadmaster will get a +2 stat increase in wisdom.

How does everyone know that for most of the non-unique enemies that their BAB is maxed at 52 and that an AC 72 is "magical"?

Didn't know that Illusionist can get around their opposing school and cast such spells as "Shield". According to the manual, Shield doesn't improve AC perse; it gives a +7 AC to area attacks (though one will never see it on the character records) and doesn't stop M's Force Missiles (MFM)despite what MFM says. Thus, it shouldn't be added to the AC total for our discussion.

When a character critical hits, it always hits; is this not so?

"Also DUHM at L18 gives you +6Dex." That's why I say to get an 18th level cleric. *Smiles* Further, leveling up in cleric improves the divine spells' DC and allows one to use healing magic and the very important "Heal" spell--like having extra lives! For Dreadmasters, they get the Gate spell at level 13 to help you slaughter your way through the game should you need it.

I believe that I mentioned everything I wanted to comment on from the other post that "disintegrated". Grr.

EDIT: Added two lines.

 

Blame this guy, Jukka Mikkonen.
He wrote the JUPP (its available in the games section here on this site).
It's a statistical work which lays bare all those details which we really should not know. Oh well.

Yes.
However another roll is made with the same attack bonus, which is the Critical Threat roll. If it too goes past the targets AC, the damage is doubled, or tripled, depending on the weapon.
Unlike the normal attack roll though, where a natural 20 always hits, this roll has no such advantage. So a high AC charecter wont be hit by the extra damage.

 

I see. Y'know, this is actually my first real foray into the DnD games. And about the BAB of 52, I'll take it for what it is then.

So, we ended up getting two basic suggestions--either go the high cleric route or the high mage route both with monk levels. Anyone wants to add anything else to improve upon this idea? Or say any other final thoughts?

 

Just to be nitpicking, that AC 72 only makes sure that Slayer Knights won't give you trouble. As I said, there are some bosses that have better BABs.

However, as some goal AC had to be selected for the JUPP, that seemed like a good target AC since the only time you really NEED high AC is when you're being pounded by by a group of enemies. Besides, I can't think of any other type of monster in the whole game that I'd classify more dangerous than them. (Spell casters aren't really a threat if you have good spell resistance, which deep gnomes do.)

Going high mage means that a vast majority of the necessary buffs (shield, ghost armor and haste) have decent durations and you get to use Mirror Image. Going cleric gives you Heal, but keeping the buffs up (Divine shell has very short duration in comparison to ghost armor) becomes a task in itself.

I'd choose mage, just because Mirror Image makes you avoid taking damage in the first place, but hey, that's just me.