help with class ratios

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heya, so I've had this game for a while now and completed it too, but I've always played parties with pure classes since i have very little knowledge of 3e rules and was wondering if somebody could suggest to me good class ratios for the following combination:

1. I want druid who will mostly be shapeshifting(i've got the improved wildshapes mod) but who would probably need some fighter lvls to make him/her stronger. Given that the last wildshape given by the improved wildshapes mod is at lvl 21 I'm thinking of making him/her 21 Dr/9 F

2. I want a bard with some fighter abilities, but mostly a bard, but i have no idea what a good ratio is.

3. i want a sorcerer, but is a pure sorcerer worth it? or should I mix it up with something else?

4. I want a frontliner cleric, so i'm thinking tempus/fighter

5. I kinda want a thief, but iirc they weren't very useful in this game

6. I want a frontliner, so i'm thinking paladin of helm mixed with fighter, but like all the previous ones, I have no idea what a good ratio between the classes would be

also any help on race suggestions would be appreciated.

 

1. Even one Monk level would be better when shapeshifted (the WIS AC bonus applies) add one level as a Cleric of Bane to get the WIS bonus (must be LN).

2. Bard /Barbarian can be a lot of fun. Once you get the best song (at level 11 IIRC) you might want to stop levelling up as a Bard.

3. Pure Sorcerer is more powerful. If you want to go MC take one or two Paladin levels (CHA bonus applies to saves).

4. Pure Clerics are much better. But if you want to MC I would suggest a weird build like Monk 1 Paladin 2 Cleric X (evasion, amazing saves, speed). Fighter 4 would work too.

5. Rogues can be great if you keep them pure. They get evasion at level 2 and special feats at level 10. Sneak attacks require a lot of investment. Many players don't care about sneak attacks. In that case starting as a Rogue and taking 2 levels before switching to Wizard (high INT helps for skillpoints) is the way to go. If you want a sneak attacker keep the MC to a minimum (one level of Ranger for a finesse Rogue or one level of Barbarian for an unusually strong one).

6. Barbarians are great frontliners. They have more hitpoints, they can't be flanked and they are faster. Paladins have better saves though but you can pick up feats that boost will saves. In any case having a high CON is necessary and a good AC is important as well. Dwarf might be a good option. A frontliner needs to dish out a lot of damage but must be able to take it as well. Damage reduction at higher levels help a lot.

 

Paladin spells arent great, so I dont think taking more than 4 levels of paladin is worth it.

With a cleric, try and have at least one cleric with high charisma, for undead turning purposes. Any undead battles become a rout. Try a cleric class like Lathander that gets Improved Turning for free. I like to make Paladin 1/Cleric x, so that I get better saves.

1 or 2 rogue levels and x levels or wizard is quite a famous combination, and works quite well. If you want your rogue to be more of a fighter, multiclass with other classes like barbarian and fighter, or ranger. I do think thieves are useless in this game, because there arent very many locked doors or traps, and sneak attack isnt worth the levels it requires.

Oh definitely keep your sorcerer pure for a while, getting spells like fireball early really helps. Try an aasimar sorcerer with 16 int and 20 chr to be your party leader.

I usually stick with boring old humans and aasimars, but a drow can work well for the rogue/wizard combination, or a tiefling.

 

ah ok, thx, so ur suggesting:

1. 1 monk/ 1 bane / x druid

2. 11 bard / x barb

3. pure or 2 lvls of pally. With this one I was just wondering, if i take 2 lvls of pally, how many sorc spells do I lose?

4. 1 monk / 2 pally / x cleric / 4 fighter

5. ok so i'm thinking more of barbarian /rogue, in that case what would be a good combo?

6. ah, so would that be a pure barb? or like barb/fighter? or barb/pally?

 

3. If you take 2 levels of pally, take them later on. You will lose one spell level (ie level 9 spells will come 2 levels later). My advice is to take one level only.
4.Interesting multiclass combination. Unless you play HoF, it wont be much of a cleric because of the amount of other classes you will be taking.
5. How many levels do you want to spend in each class? do you want a rogue who can fight, or a barb who can pick locks etc? you might wanna add in four fighter levels for weapon specialization and extra feats.
6. Barb fighter sounds good. Like fighter 4/ barb x.
Remember, you need high charisma to benefit from paladin levels, and that might mean taking down some str, con or dex, which you might not want to do. That being said, if you plan to give this guy heavy armor, dex is only important for reflex saves, in which case you may as well take the pally level to make up for it.

 

3. thx
4. that's what the other guy suggested, and yeah I don't really want healing cleric, I wanta frontliner cleric which is why i originall thought of tempus/fighter
5. well I basically want a rogue who can also fight
6. ah ok, how about pally/fighter? i was thinking 2 pally/ x fighter

for caradras, I just looked at the descriptions again, why would I need a level of bane for no 1? I can't really see any bonuses from bane

 

As far as I remember, there is a quest that only a cleric of bane can finish, that gives good bonuses.

4.In that case, monk/pally/fighter/cleric could work. be careful of multiclassing exp penalties though (choose a race such as human, or a race with cleric as their favored class, and keep all other classes within one level of each other).
5.Maybe barb 3/fighter 4/rogue x?
6.Pally 2/ Fighter x can be good. even pally 3/fighter 4/cleric x can get you some extra healing and spellcasting power.

 

3: As some have said before, take the Pal-lvls late when you already have around 20 sorc lvls (in middle of HOF-mode.)

4: Take only one fighter or pal lvl early for weapon proficiencies. Take the rest of the non cleric lvls late in HOF or don't take them at all. Clerics are good fighters if well built and have quite many useful buff spells. Minimize int and cha and you'll have enough ability points to maximize wis, con and str and have a fairly high dex.

5: start taking a rogue lvl and then keep them equal for a couple of lvls. If you see yourself using him much for meleeing, take more barb lvls. If you see that you use sneak attacks a lot, take more rogue lvls. Any rogue/barb lvl combination works, just take the combination that matches yous play style.

6:If you want a pally/fighter, take 3 pal lvls for all pal bonuses since the extra fighter lvls over lvl 4 don't give much more than feats.

Make sure you know how favored classes work before picking races for your chars!
Working races for these builds would be (not prefered races in parenthesis):

1: human (and half elves). the only two that don't suffer from xp-penalities.

2: Human, half orc, ghostwise halfling (half elf)

3: Aasimar, human, wild elf, (half elf).

4: that build will get xp-penalities. instead you could do:
a fighter/cleric as dwarf, human, female drow (and half elf)
a barb/cleric as half orc, human, female drow (and half elf)
a pal/cleric as aasimar, human, female drow (and half elf)
or keep the mix in lvls with at most one apart with a human, female drow (or half elf)

5: Thiefling, human, half orc and halflings (and of course half elves) works fine for this build.

6: pal/fighters should be human, aasimar or dwarfs (half elf).
barb/fighters should be human, half orcs or ghostwise halflings (or half elf).

 

Regarding n°4 you misread my post (or I wasn't clear). What I meant was either Paladin 2/Monk 1/Cleric X or Fighter 4/Cleric X. The first build will have evasion and uber saves provided CHA is high enough. The fighter build will have weapon specialization. I'd go with the first because it will only require 3 levels instead of 4 and this character will have the best saves in your party, the only problem is that you'd need a high WIS (divine spellcasting), a good CHA (better saves and effective turning), and rather good STR and CON (damage and hitpoints) DEX can be average though (since this character will be able to cast spells and benefit from evasion while wearing heavy armours). A female Drow Paladin 2/Monk 1/Cleric X would be totally uber with high stats and spell resistance(although it would take more time for her to become a high level Cleric).