2D is still better

Remove all ads!

Well it is. Personally i will not be buying NWN or any other game of that style because they will just look rubbish!
Here is my point of view:

We all go on about what we can do with computer games at the moment but lets be honest, its not always as good as we make out. I have played hundreds of 3d games and even the best ones like half life do not for a minute make you think you are in the game. The graphics are still just not good enough.

So NWN is further on and will be better yes? No. You look at the screen shots and they cause no emotion what so ever. The worlds are bland boring and block like. The level of detail is poor. The fine details are completely lost. And as in many 3D rpg's the game will be confusing and frustrating.
Personally i do not think i could ever get bored with the BG format. It is rich and inviting. The detail is intracate and interesting and you can not ever get confused. The game may not be as 'interactive' as it could be but for me it creates a better atmosphere than any game could for a long while.
For example, people think it would be great to put books on a computer so that you can have them all stored in one place. But the truth is that no one will go for it as they want to fill their bookshelves and be able to sit in front of a warm log fire and read LOTR without having to squint at a stupid screen.
Sometimes it is just better to leave things as they are.
What do you think?

 

I agree with you on some points. 3D graphics are maybe not developed enough for them to look really nice. Monkey Island 4 is a proof of that: The game sucks oh so much compared to the lovey cartoonish 2D Monkey Island 3.

But then again, with the right hardware, you will get an awesome graphics in Black & White, but there the game itself is to boring. With the hardware provided, you will actually experience awesome graphics in Halflife to.

I do believe that the game graphics does not have so much to say if you are to live yourself into the game. If you have the perfect background music and the perfect setting, along with an excellent and complex storyline containing adventuring that really makes sense in a CRPG gamers mind. If everything else is perfect, the graphics don't mind as long as it is not just crap or full of bugs.

 

Well that is my point. Why should we have to wait longer and upgrade our computers more often because game designers want to bring out a 3D game that will have at best an equal effect to a 2D one.
And i do have a very good computer anyway which is capable of running all of these new games but i am speaking on behalf of those who do not.

 

I agree to an extent. I think there is still a place for good 2D stuff like BG etc. I also think that the overhead perspective is much better suited to the party based role playing game. Basically for me, this is because it is the only way of seeing (and controlling) what is really going on and so enjoying it to the full. Maybe we might be able to do that eventually in 3D but I think you'd need to have virtual reality headsets and stuff so it was easy to glance around and see what was happening more instinctively.

However, I have to disagree with you over the '3D isn't realistic enough and so not immersive enough.' Of course it's each to their own but I found games like System Shock 2, Thief, Hidden & Dangerous etc to be incredibly immersive. Much more so than any 2D type game. If you let your imagination go a bit then the graphics are fine but I think it is probably more the sound that really does it. There is also some sign that groups will be possible and involving in 3D. There is a group with you (though you have little control of it) in Star Trek Elite force. It works quite well and adds to the atmoshphere.

As to NWN, I've said it before but, it is a very different game to BG2 and the like. For starters you will not be controlling a whole party. There will just be you and whoever you meet online. For this type of game I think 3D is better suited. I think, if done well, that it will add to the feeling of 'playing a role' in a game, which is what NWN is all about.

Anyway, as I said everyone has their own preference and for me I think it depends on the type of game (Unreal Tournamnet would be crap online in 2D). I also think that a good game is a good regardless of the grphics it uses. What I really dislike is games adopting 3D just to be trendy and then using it badley (things like Force Commander). Oh well, enough rambling from me for one day.

PS just had another thought - anyone remember playing 'Eye of the Beholder'? That was a single person role playing game in (very crap by today's standards) 3D. It was also was very atmospheric and involving once you let your imagination go.

[This message has been edited by Darien Noella (edited July 07, 2001).]

 

I think Slappy has made some excellent points. To start with a player brings a lot to any game they are playing. Graphics and sounds are great - don't get me wrong - but the true enjoyment comes from the playability and concept. Just think back to the early games and you enjoyed so much. No matter how much graphics, sound FXs, and game interfaces advance the 'gamer' is the core of the system. Ever is a game have fun on it's own?

I agree that for the current time with the current technology some interfaces lend themselves to certain type of games. I perfer the 3/4 overhead view for RPGs like BG and the 3D view for FPS like No One Lives Forever. These are both excellent games in their own style. Until true 3D - VR rigs - are reality I think that control is the key issue. You need to see to control and if you have multiple character, as in most party style RPGs the FPS angle has some problems.

But on the other saying the game maker should not expand and use new technology is silly. I mean it a game design said back in 1975 "we shouldn't make games with graphics, are current computers can't run them and text game are good enough." Where would we today? New technology isn't bad. In 25 years our kids might be saying "Can you believe that our parents use keyboards and a mouse to play their games."

 

at this point i havnt seen anything 3d (next to max payne & black and white) which can rival 2d in immersion or in details. however we all know 3d is the future. at this point 2d is still the way to go in strategy and rpg games, but if developers can get past those flaws wouldnt you agree that in a few years 3d will undoubtedly be the way to go in almost all genres?

 

Well it depends on how the game is made and what videocard you have but when I just saw Diablo 2 I think they CAN make a good looking 3d game, and images give not the right view about the graphics. I sure gonna buy that game.... Just wait and try the demo, you'll see it'll be not that bad as you say.

Otherwise, you can better buy some AD&D-books and go sit with some friends 'round the table. Then you got good graphincs

 

I just bought the game Summoner, where you run around in a 3D world. The problem for me in this game is not that the graphics suck (and they do) it's more the controls that is a problem for me. I haven't come across one 3D first person game that have actually solved the control problem, and by doing that, I think that you will get a much more realistic feel to it.

And let's hope that they make a couple of more games with the Infinity engine or a newer and better version of it

 

Ok, some key words that may make you open your horizons:

"Black & White"
"Halo"
"Max Payne"
"Halo"
"JK3: Jedi Outcast"
"Halo"
"Tribes 2"
"Halo"
"Soldier Of Fortune (2)"
"Halo"
"Messiah"
"Halo"
"Return To Castle Wolfenstein"
and of course "Halo"

Just a few examples of amazing 3d engines that are far more detailed and superior than anything you can achive with 2D engines.

 

Just a short spam...

No modern 3D engined game has a story like 2D games. And I'm for the story. I don't care for amazing effects - instead of making my eyes satisfied I want my brains satisfied.

So, you see what type I prefer.

 

Wow.
These are very wise words and infact some of them have almost restored my faith in 3D.

The mention of Theif and Star Trek Elite Force has triggered my memory of deeply satisfying and immersive 3D games.
Now here is a thought.
I said that such a game as BG could not be put into 3D as they could not cope with the levels of detail. However, yesterday i was digging through my piles of crap in my bedroom when i stumbled across a rather dusty copy of the reasonably new game 'Vampire Masquerade'. After looking at the rather remarkable graphics on it i realised that a good 3D BG lookalike could actually be made!
Has anyone tried this game. It is VERY good.

ps. Halo is not out until autum.

[This message has been edited by Avooch Dar (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

The main advantage of 2D of 3D is that you can fit a lot more on the screen without dragging down the system.

20 some people on the infinity engine is nothing. 20 people on the screen in UT and Q3 effects performance drasticly.

It comes down to sales. They want to garner as many customers as possible. And that means keeping up visually with the other genres.

Anyone who refuses to buy NWN is a heretic

 

If it is first person then 3D is the only possibility. How scarry would System Shock 2 be if you would be looking form 3/4 perspective like in BG2?

But when it comes to RPGs and RTSes of today 3D is unnecesery. It only lowers the number of players (not everybody owns 1500Mhz thunderbird) and kills the float. In few years perhaps...

 

Cool thread. I think 2D is perfect for the Infinity engined games. Plus, they are much more beautiful to look at than the shots of NWN I've seen. But, other games like Dungeon Siege look lush and full. I think for FPS games, 3D is the way, of course. Half Life and SS2 scared the crap out of me.

When I first found out that NWN would be 3D I was crushed. I was hoping for more of the BG style coolness. Torn is 3D as well and has that NWN look, too. Oh well.