POLL: Poll: Character stats generation methods

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What method of character ability score generation would you like to see in AD&D-based CRPGs?

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 37 user(s) have voted.
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Poll Results: Poll: Character stats generation methods (37 votes.)

What method of ability score generation would you prefer to see in AD&D CRPGs? (Choose 1)
* 3d6, no rerolling. You are what you are. - 11% (4)
* 3d6. It's tradition. - 14% (5)
* 4d6, lowest die removed. Everyone deserves a decent character. - 32% (12)
* Standard Point buy. All adventures have equal potential. - 30% (11)
* Weighted point buy. Greatness comes at a price. - 8% (3)
* Standard set of scores to be distributed. - 3% (1)
* None of the above. - 3% (1)

 

What do you exactly mean by weighted point buy? The others I get but I never heard of something similar. At least I don't think I saw it. Maybe I did and just didn't realize it. Could someone explain please?

 

@ Meatdog - Weighted point buy is the system whereby it costs one point to increase a stat by one at low levels, two points to increase the same stat by one at higher levls, three points at even higher levels etc.

Personally I prefer the standard point buy. It saves a lot of time that I would otherwise feel somehow obligated to spend rerolling to get high scores. I prefer standard over weighted point buy as I like being able to have a high score in a stat without having to horribly reduce my other stats to compensate. Under weighted point buy I find that all too often I end up with my stats sitting at the top of the single point buy level. If I look at my Neverwinter Nights characters there are far too many 14s among the starting stats.

 

I dont like point-buy of any kind.
First what it does, is make all characters start off with the same posibilities. See, now if you have a lordling and a farmer's son. One received offical training in physical and mental disciplines, while the other only ran around with the cows. They still get the same starting conditions stat-wise.
It also takes some charm off the game, knowing that everyone has the same starting conditions.
Also makes it more powergaming IMO. Weighted point-buy is better when you have powergamers, but again its impossible to make a character who is just simply gifted.

I prefer 4d6 with no rerolling.

 

Yeah, I should have added 4d6 no reroll as one of the options; 4d6 effectively prohibits (unless you roll four 1's) a character having a 3 in an ability.

Another option, of course, would be to limit the number of rolling attempts to, say, 10. That way, you won't end up with an abysmal character on one hand, and won't have the chance to roll an ubercharacter on the other.

 

You can't go lower than 8 for most point buys, either it being in game or for pnp. Least my dm won't let me go below 8.

I like point-buy much better, because it allowed you to customize your character more. It lets you define the character instead of letting your rolls define your character is.

 

I hate point buy, it means that there are no unique characters. There are some people that are simply great at everything, whilst there are others who simply suck. There should be the possibility to have either.

 

I hate point-buy as well. Precisely for the same reasons as mentioned above. Namely, the similarity of characters due to it, and the lack of personal control over what you want to play.

It's like the trait Gifted in Fallout. Many are against it because it makes the game "unbalanced". To me, that's the entire point of it.

The player must have control over what they want to play. Being able to make a supreme character is no more harmful in BG's than it was in Fallouts. And the reward for allowing the player to take less points than intended is a high bonus in my books. As I've said before, I've always loved the idea of a Raistlin-type mage (before I ever read about him, mind you), meaning someone who just sucks in everything but that one area.

In addition, while taking superlow stats is usually used by powergamers, it also adds greatly to a roleplayer when used correctly. The minimum limit of 8 is rediculous. Is there anyone here who played Fallout and didn't love trying out a character with an intelligence less than 4?

No. There is no point in trying to force balance at the cost of gameplay, immersion and general joy of playing the game. The same applies for rerolls. It's different in multiplayer or PnP, but when it's singleplayer, it's nobody else's business but one's own. Forcing the player to move back and forth between screens or to get a cheater program because lack of luck prevent them from getting the minimum of 85 points they want, is just artificial timesink.

So I go with 3d6 + infinite rerolls.

 

I much prefer point buy to rolling since with rolling your character is based on luck, not what you want him to be, while with point buy you can plan your character completely. I always hate it when I don't have full control over character development, which is the case with anything random. It is MY character after all, so I find I should have full control of its development. The more control and the less luck-based, the better.

 

I would agree. If it weren't for the fact that the basic point-buy you see in NWN limits your minimum stat to 8, and maximum to basically 16 unless you're of the approppriate race, or unless you're willing to screw basically all of the other stats you have.

And even then, the variation is a huge bonus.

The biggest problem most rpg's or almost-rpg's have had for the past few years is variation. And point-buy system is just another manifestation of this problem. In order for races, characters and classes to truly be different and grant different experiences every time you play, there needs to be a random factor involved in the creation. One that doesn't make the game feel uncomfortable because it bases your success off of luck, but instead gives that "unique" feeling to every individual character.

There are only so many reasonable ways to divide the same amount of statpoints to a given race and class, but because of random-yet-controlled statpoint amount, you can get numerous different experiences. Sometimes you have so much extra you end up excelling in more than what you're used to doing. And sometimes so much less you must use new tactics and thinking entirely to compensate for that lack of usual ability in some area.

To me it's really all the same if you roll your stats or just pick them directly. But from the game-developer's point of view, the latter would be a stupid idea. Most people lack the self-control to stick to the recommendations unless very much enforced to do so. And while it's all the same to me what someone else does with his game, obviously any company granting the player the ability to play with an uberpowerful character from beginning, can't expect to keep the players interested long enough to actually sell well.

 

In fact I agree with you that there should be some (large) degree of variation, but I find that this variation should come from differences between the classes and races and not from some luck-based system. But all in all the system I like above all else is one that isn't D&D and so is not included in the list (but I didn't vote other because I didn't think of it at the moment of voting) is the system used in Morrowind. I find the character system very good but I didn't enjoy the game much because of a lack of strong, epic storyline. That is why I didn't think of it.

 

Morrowind didn't just miss an epic storyline.. when you reached a certain point (not that late game really) there just wasn't any challenge left.. Just hack'n'slash or using exactly the same spells in exactly the same way everytime... And the AI sucked (otherwise cool game , had great hopes anyway, and the character creation system WAS good)

I think the point system I prefer is the one they use in ToEE, because it is possible to roll more than once, but if you do it says so. That way you can't brag about how lucky you were when it says you rerolled 247 times to get that score... So if you want to waste your time going from screen to screen trying to get the perfect score, with only one roll on your record... well it's your own damn time you are wasting.

 

Yeah well honestly I think the one who rolled 1000 times to get those scores deserves more respect than the one who got it with first try. Afterall, the first one actually went through the trouble to get it, while the latter just lucked in on it. So the entire system is pointless, either way you lose, really.

I do like the idea of Ironman mode though. Even though In D&D survival has more to do with luck than with skill in the end, with all the various savingthrows that are completely out of your control.

 

In some CRPGs, particularly at higher levels, you reach a point where combat becomes more skill than luck, i.e., you hit and kill enemies most of the time regardless of whether you roll a 5 or a 15.

But I do like Ironman (TOEE-style). It encourages you to play carefully and strategically - just like in real life, you will no longer be tempted to attack dragons or whatnot just because you feel like it. I would actually love to hear from someone who has completed TOEE in Ironman (because, truth be told, I haven't).