Diablo 2 & Sorceress builds

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Too late for the cows - already killed the Cow King in Nightmare, as I wasn't really planning on doing any item runs at that stage (if I'd only known)

I'm in the Dark Wood now, so The Pit seems like a place I'll run a few (many?) times to try and get good items. I'm not doing too bad really - the only times I've died till now was blindly walking into a room with a dozen archers who fired all at the same time - instant death for my sorc. My resistances aren't great, but none is in the negative at least.

If The Pit bosses can drop the highest TC items, what's the advantage of going for Mephisto? You get many bosses in The Pit, and the enemies would be easier to defeat than in Act 3 I assume.

@Wordplay: Is it a pure Lightning sorceress you're running? How well is she doing until now? I've encountered a rather large number of Lightning immunes lately, so I think a one-tree Sorc is indeed impossible in Hell.

 

Well there's two reasons why many people prefer Meph runs to the Pit.

1.) While the bosses on the Pit can, in theory drop any item in the game (and it should be noted that there are items that Hell Meph cannot drop) the chance of them dropping rare or better items is lower than the odds for Mephisto. So in other words, while the potential pool of items in the Pit is greater than Hell Mephisto, there is a greater chance of Hell Mephisto dropping rare, set or unique items.

2.) And perhaps the bigger reason is because Pit bosses drop one item, whereas Hell Meph drops several items. Hell Meph drops 5 or 6 items at a time, and there's a good chance that at least 3 or 4 of the items will be rare or better.

Let's put it this way, don't be disappointed if you don't get something great the first time you run the pit. In fact, don't be disappointed if you don't get anything great the first 10 times you run the pit. No matter what you do, there is no place in the entire game where you are guaranteed a great item drop every time you do it. All of these recommended runs require doing them dozens of times.

That having been said, there are a few things I like about the Pit runs that you don't get with Meph runs:

1. For starters, what monsters can drop is determined by monster level, and since all monsters in the pit are at least level 84 (quite high) Pit runs serve as excellent experience point runs as well. There's nothing better than levelling while doing item runs. Pit runs will earn you a good amount of experience until your level gets well in the 80s, at which point it slows down dramatically no matter what you do. For characters under level 80, the Pit is easy experience, and any dual elemental sorceress should be able to run the Pit with ease, as nothing barring a random boss spawn will have immunities to both fire and cold.

2. While you probably earn more rare/set/unique items going for Meph than you do in a Pit run, it's practically guaranteed that you already have as good as or better equipment than much of what Meph can drop. With my barbarian, I loved doing Pit runs because if nothing else you get a whole mess of magical exceptional armors that sell for 35,000 gp each and give you a steady cash supply for gambling purposes. Plus, you want the best items, not pretty good items. I'd rather do 20 Pit runs to get one really good item than do 20 Meph runs and get 10 so-so items that I really don't need.

3. The chest on level 2 of the Pit. On the second level of the Pit is where the true reward of running the pit comes in. Level 2 is a very small level and it's layout is the same in each game. You start in the north center and there are three tiers leading down to ever wider areas. There are always three bosses in this little area, so three chances for something really good to drop. In addition there is a chest in the south east section of the level that is a six item force drop TC 72. That's the exact same thing as Hell Andariel, so already that's not bad. Unlike Andariel, the chest can also drop runes as high as Vex, and there's not too many places you're going to get that opportunity.

That's why the Pits for me are a no brainer.

 

Just finished my first Pit run. Got nothing terribly exciting, but I'm starting to realise that the only way to get something exciting at this stage of the game is to turn it into work, which I'm not going to do.

I've also realised (about time) that none of those nice equipment lists I see in guides are ever going to be possible without dozens of run on a single area, which I will not do simply because it's the perfect way to kill the game for me. I'm therefore going to settle for the obvious conclusion: I'm not going to find things like Occulus, Harlequin, SoJ, Mara's, and so on (and let's not even talk about Tal Rasha's). Such builds are simply not possible in single player unless you have far more patience than I do.

That said I'm quite happy with the way my sorceress is turning out. She can dish good damage now, and the Pit was relatively easy to go through thanks to multiple elemental attacks (no boss I encountered was double immune)

I might do another half dozen pit runs, but I'm not going to spend hours and hours until I (maybe) get a good item.

 

There you go, Grasshopper! One of the Veils of the Infinitely Mysterious Universe have been lifted from your eyes! Go forth and all will be revealed in due time!

 

She is doing fine, with chain-lightning ripping through everything. Bosses are a problem, as usual, but after boosting her through Diablo with my plaguezon, I also remember that she has static-field (-10% of life per hit).

No doubt the immunes will cause trouble, but that would be the same any class. I just don't intend to solo online, so I'll be teaming up with some group soon. Perhaps a tri-elemental sorceress strike-force.

 

Exactly. I even tried to warn you by saying:

I'd also like to point out (even though you didn't ask directly) that magic find is extremely over-rated. That's because the % increase is nerfed for the better items. The increased chance in finding a magic item (blue) is exactly what the cumulative total is for all your magic find equipment. However, for rare, set, and unique items, you start getting diminishing returns the higher you go with magic find. To attempt to illustrate this by example, a character with 200% magic find, will have a 200% better chance of finding a blue item. However, he will not have a 200% better chance of finding rare, set, or unique items. Those percentages will look something more along the lines of:

Rare: 160% (yellow)
Set: 150% (green)
Unique: 140% (bronze/brownish)

And the higher you go, the worse your returns become. By the time you hit 400%, you're getting less than half of what it says you're getting for anything beyond magical. That having been said, more is always more. It's just that a lot of time, more isn't all that much more. That's why I never build my characters around magic find. It's easy enough to get magic find up to about 100%, and that's about all I will shoot for.

The final thing you can consider is using your cube to make crafted (orange) items.

 

I know, I was just living in my little dream hoping great items would start raining on me in Hell
This might start becoming a problem in later acts, where my Sorceress will be severely weaker than another one with all these nice items, but until now (Monastery Gate) she's doing well enough.
The problem I'm having at the moment is with my mercenary. I spend most of my gold resurrecting him, as he dies quite quickly even to a small horde of carvers. Mercenaries are fantastic in Nigthmare, but I'm really starting to see that Blizzard designed Hell for multiplayer (I know, something else that everyone's been telling me for a while).

That said I reread my previous post, and realised how incredibly pompous I must have looked when I said "Such builds are simply not possible" to the very same people who'd been saying this for weeks now

I'm glad you mentionned MF, as I was thinking about prioritising it a bit more. I obviously will not now if it means sacrificing far more important areas (which is everything else except attack rating and defense, really)

One more question: if I understand blocking, chance to block depends on 3 things: the shield, dexterity and level. Now, when I look at a shield I get a %block value: is this the shield's (that's what I assume)? If it is, how can I know what my total chance to block is?

 

I almost always play solo, and I swear by the Act II defensive mercenary who uses the defiance aura. It up's his defense by something like 350%, and he is surprisingly durable. I understand however, the appeal of the holy freeze merc with a cold based sorceress.

Correct.

Yes.

Scroll over the box on your character sheet that gives your defense, and you'll get a pop-up showing the % chance an enemy will hit you, as well as what your % chance to block is.

Generally speaking to maintain a maximum block rate you have to spend about 2.5 points per level on dexterity, so that's a hefty investment. The chance to block probably doesn't work as you logically would expect. The three factors you mention work as follows:

The higher the % chance on the shield, the higher your chance to block.

The higher your dexterity, the higher the % chance to block.

The higher your level, the LOWER the % chance to block.

It's usually the third one that is confusing. Basically, the more levels you earn, the more points need to be sunk into dexterity to maintain the maximum block. If you have two sorceresses, with the exact same shield and exact same dexterity, the sorceress with the lower level will have a better % chance to block. It makes no sense, but that's the way the game works. That having been said, if you haven't been sinking somewhere around half of your ability points into dexterity, it is extremely unlikely that you will be able to acheive the 75% maximum blocking percentage at this point, because you simply will be unable to earn enough levels to catch up. If that is the case, you may as well just carry around a shield for the resistances, and not worry about blocking percentage. It doesn't really matter at this point, if you have a dexterity of 70 whether your % chance to block is 22% or 26% - it's going to fail with regularity regardless.

EDIT: Regarding running - in my games I typically would do one Pit run per day, and then continue taking my character through the part of the game I was currently on. It's not that bad doing only one Pit run per day, and you do get some decent items. I agree that running the Pit 10 times a day looking for good items will get incredibly boring after a while.

[ September 26, 2006, 21:26: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

I backed up my save game and did some experimentation. I have ~150 spare stat points that I didn't assign because I didn't feel the need to do so. My dex is base, as I haven't added a single point till now. I'm carrying a Tower Shield with Ancient's Pledge (still waiting for that 4-socket shield to show up...) that has a 44% chance to block. My real blocking is 4% (!).

Now, if I spend all 150 points on dexterity, my blocking jumps to 50%, which is not bad I assume. If all points go into vitality, life goes from 600 to 900, which is not terribly impressive for 150 stat points spent. My question is therefore this: should I spend all these points on dexterity now? I have no other points, and I am at level 75. My strength is in the 80's, and if I sink all points into dex now I want to be sure I don't find that sought after 4-socket shield, only to find I need 20 points into strength to use it (sinking the points into vitality is not a lucrative prospect, as many of you previously pointed out).

Any suggestions on what to do?

 

Well, obviously, the strength requirement on your yet-to-be-found 4-socketed shield here is important. While there are several shields out there that require greater than 80 strength to equip, there's many more that don't. Out of curiosity, why are you still walking around with ancient's pledge? You haven't found a 3-socketed shield yet either? That alone would add +10% to all of your resistances.

Anyway, my opinion is thus: spend them on dexterity. The further you progress into hell, it won't make a bit of difference if your life is 600 or 900 - the vast majority of stuff is going to kill you with one hit anyway. I'd rather have a 50% chance of blocking the incoming attack - and therefore taking no damage - than getting hit and hoping that I have enough life to pull through it. On the off-chance that you find a 4-socket shield that requires more strength than you currently have, well, you lasted this long, you can wait another 4 levels to earn those points.

That because you're level 75 with base dexterity - I'm surprised it's as high as it is. At your level, you'll need somewhere in the range of 190 points in dexterity to reach max block.

It's not bad, but I would still recommend pumping every last stat point you earn from here on out into dexterity. The maximum the game allows is 75%, and while you probably won't reach that (because every level you gain increases the amount of dexterity you have to spend to reach 75%), you can do a lot better than 50%.

 

If you go for blocking you have to get a shield that is suited for that or else you're better off putting points into Vitality.

Ancients Pledge is hopeless for blocking no matter what shield you build it in.
All 4s shields are also hopeless for blocking unless you manage to find a magic Jeweler's (4 sockets) <shield> of Deflecting (+20% increased blocking & +30% faster block rate) which drops about once every million years.

You must get the Deflecting mod (+20% block) for a regular shield to be useful as a blocking shield or else the return on your invested dex points become pitiful.


Here are the runeword, set and unique shield options I can think of that works if you decide to go with blocking:

Sigon's shield gives 64% block and +1 skills, but lacks other mods.

Whitstan's Guard (Orphan's Call set) is the best block shield in the game with 87%, but has no other useful mod. Nevertheless a very good shield.

Rhyme runeword in a heater is decent. It gives 62% block for a sorc.

Visceratuant is nice if you can upgrade it to a Heater in which case it gives 72% block.

Moser's Blessed Circle gives a barely acceptable 57% block but with 25 res all and 2 sockets it is a great choice. Upgraded to elite it gives 65% block.

Gerke's Sanctuary has great block (74%) and very nice mods, but requires 133 strength.

Stormshield is a classic shield. 67% block, some resistances and a whopping 35% damage reduction. 156 strength to use it is harsh, but if you find this beauty you *will* do whatever it takes to use it.


Here is a page worthy of bookmarking: http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551

[ September 28, 2006, 00:32: Message edited by: Earl Grey ]

 

I don't agree with that. Yes, ideally, if you go for blocking, you are going to want to get a shield that has some mods on it that give you faster blocking and a better blocking rate, especially for a character like a sorceress, who because of the class, has a low block rate. However, with a return of just 2 life per point spent in vitality, I don't think that vitality is a particularly wise investment here.

I further agree that there are loads of better options out there than Ancient's Pledge. Heck, a regular 3-socket shield with 3pd in it is better than Ancients. However, since he's playing single player and can't trade, I think it is extremely unlikely that he will find any of the shields that you list.

My simple point was that given his limited options at this point, I'd rather pump dexterity, and get the block rate up as much as possible, than take the extra life points. He probably won't ever get to 75% max with his current shield choice. However, he can up it immediately to 50%, and getting it up to 60% is certainly well within reason.

Using a shield like Gerke's or Stormshield is completely out of the question for a sorceress. You can't invest that heavily in strength with a sorceress - you'll ruin the character.

 

Quite the contrary!

Let's sort this confusion out once and for all.


* Blocking, why get 75% instead of 50%? *
(Keep in mind that we're talking about blockable attacks now. Some attacks can not be blocked.)

You take 100% more hits if you have 50% block than you would with 75% block!

Here is why:
With 75% blocking 25% of the attacks hit you.
With 50% blocking 50% of the attacks hit you.
That is twice as many, or 100% more.

This is the reason why you want to have as close to 75% effective block (which is max) as possible.


* What does it take to get 75% block? *

Assume sorceress level 80.
Block% on shield - Dex required for 75% block
40% - 315 dex
50% - 255 dex
57% - 226 dex (Moser's)
60% - 215 dex (Rhyme in a Grim Shield)
64% - 203 dex (Sigon's)
67% - 195 dex (Stormshield)
70% - 187 dex
72% - 182 dex (Visceratuant upgraded to Heater)
74% - 178 dex (Gerke's) (Stormshield socketed w Eld)
87% - 153 dex (Whitstan's)


* The value of stat points *

Ok, so you want 75% block, but you still want to use the Shield of Crappy Blocking - why not spend all the stat points required in dex anyway?

By level 80 you have 420 points to play with (395 from levels and 15 from quests).
How are these best spent?

Starting stats:
Str 10
Dex 25
Vit 10
At level 80 you have:
Life 119 (start at 40 and 1 per level up).

The golden rule of stat allocation:
Str: Enough for gear
Dex: Enough for max block or for gear if not going with max block.
Vit: All the rest
Ene: Nothing

First we determine dexterity requirement.
The best "3 socket Shield of Crappy Blocking" is arguably a 3 PDiamond Troll Nest (second best is Dragon Shield which means less str but more dex and in the end less life). This requires 106 strength and has 40% block.
For 75% block you need 315 dex. This means 290 stat points on dex.
You also need 106 strength which means you spend another 96 stat points there.
You have 34 stat points left to put in Vitality.
Your vital signs now look like this:
Str 106
Dex 315
Vit 44
Life 187
All res +57%

The alternative I recommend is the easily obtainable Rhyme Grim Shield.
This requires 58 strength and has 60% block.
For 75% block you need 215 dex. This means 190 stat points on dex.
You also need 58 strength which means you spend another 48 stat points there.
You have 182 stat points left to put in Vitality.
Your vital signs now look like this:
Str 58
Dex 215
Vit 182
Life 483
All res +25%
Cannot be frozen
40% faster block rate
Regen mana 15%
25% magic find
50% gold find

The only advantages the 3 PDiamond Troll Nest build has is 32% more all res and good strength.
The Rhyme build has many advantages, but the extra life - 483 vs 187 - is the biggest.


What about 50% blocking with the 3 PDiamond Troll Nest?
Yes, you achieve 50% block with 215 dex which happens to be exactly what you need to get 75% block with the Rhyme Grim Shield.
Remember that this option means you will get hit twice as often as with 75% block. Does that sound good to you?


The Stormshield alternative
Socketed with Eld rune (+7% blocking)
Str req: 156
Dex req for 75% block: 178
Vital stats:
Str 156
Dex 178
Vit 131
Life 361
Damage reduced by 35%!
Cold res 60%
Lightning res 35%
35% faster block rate
Huge defense etc.
Compare with Rhyme build above where you have 483 life. An attack that does 483 damage to the Rhyme shield build would do 314 damage to the Stormshield build thanks to the 35% dr. The Stormshield build would survive.
This is why Stormshield is so good.


* Summary *
If you go for block then aim for max block, which is 75%.

Attacks will get through and the more points spent in Vitality the better protected you are from one-hit-kills. What is needed is a balance between not getting hit (block/dexterity) and surviving the hits that get through (life/vitality).

Rhyme can be built by any character since all you need is a 2 socket shield and the common runes Shael+Eth.

If you don't yet have a good blocking shield but your goal is to get max block then don't go overboard on spending dex points. When/if you find a good blocking shield you don't want to find out that you have spent more dex than necessary. Try to get dex from equipment and charms in the meantime.

 

EG,

Excellent analysis, and I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I had not realized that you could in fact use Stormshield with a sorceress, and still have sufficient stat points left over for vitality.

Let's get back more to the problem at hand though. If we were starting with a blank slate here, everything you're saying is correct. The thing is, we're not. We're talking about Ziad's character, and what he could possibly have available to him. I'm certainly not saying that Ziad won't find a Stormshield - just that it's highly unlikely. Additionally, I'm not saying Stormshield isn't one of the best shield choices out there, regardless of what class you're playing - if you could find one that is.

Now obviously, it's much better to have a block of 75% compared to 50%, I just don't think that's a realistic goal for Ziad unless he gets better equipment. As you correctly point out, someone with 50% block gets hit twice as much as someone with 75% block. Using your line of reasoning, do you not also see that someone like Ziad, currently with 4% block is similarly going to get hit nearly twice as much as someone with 50% block? My point to Ziad was that spending points in dexterity is the way to go because 1.) a character has a better chance of surviving taking half as many hits, even if he doesn't have as many hit points and 2.) It's not like he's spending so many points on dexterity that he's going to massively overshoot what he needs even if he gets a better shield.

Starting with 25 dexterity, even if he spends all 150 points into dexterity, that puts him at 175 - below the requirements for every shield you mentioned to get max block. I am still confused why you would advocate dumping everything into vitality, when the possibility of getting significantly above 50% blocking is there. Heck, if he spends all of his stat points in vitality, and adds all new ones there (as I recommended to him), even if he doesn't ever get a better shield, he can easily add several percentage points on to that 50%. 75% is what he should shoot for, but even if he can't get there, he can still do better than the current 50%.

Remember, his question was should he dump his extra stat points into vitality or dexterity - and I still say dexterity is the way to go here.

 

I agree that good advice in this particular case is to spend all points on dex, but to take full advantage of the investment high priority should be given to making a Rhyme shield.

My calc show 43% block with 175 dex, level 75 and a 40% block shield. With a Rhyme Grim Shield blocking becomes 64% instead.
Original shield: 57% (100-43) hits connect.
Rhyme shield: 36% (100-64) hits connect.

Assuming 175 dexterity the net effect is that the sorc takes 58% more hits with the current shield than with a Rhyme Grim Shield. I don't know the resistance situation though.


Strength in the 80s is good enough as it will allow the sorc to wear both Dusk Shroud and Wyrmhide. It's close enough to the 90s that equipment change should get you there in case an armor like Shaftstop or Skullder's Ire drops.
Don't save stat points at this stage just in case something like a Stormshield should drop. Spend the points!

 

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, Whitstan's Guard and Sigon's shield drop pretty often, esp if you farm nightmare bhaal

 

I'm not sure about the frequency of Whitstan's, but certainly Sigon's is a pretty common drop. Regardless both are much more common than Gerke's and Stormshield.

 

Wow... that was a fairly impressive analysis I have to say! It has convinced me to sink the points into Dex
No good shields have dropped yet I'm afraid. The only shields (socketed or otherwise) that I'm getting are paladin-only, which is starting to get on my nerves at this stage. I've not yet played with my sorceress after deciding to put points in Dex, so I'll know this weekend how it's worked out.

 

Well, paladin shields are always going to have the best block rating, so I'm not surprised that the "best" shields you've found are for paladins only. Don't forget that the calss you are playing is a big factor as well. The same shield will give different blocking rates to different classes, with the paladins always being the highest. Since paladin shields can obviously only be used by paladins, paladin shields always have rather high block rates.

Different classes receiving different benefits from the same shield is something that is unusual when in comes to RP games. While it makes some sense that a paladin will make better use of a shield than a sorceress, and thus have a higher chance to block, the other fighting classes like amazons and barabarians (one would think) would also be very proficient in shield use. Still, it's a little strange that the same shield might confer a 47% base percentage to a paladin, but only 32% to a sorceress.

 

I got meself Radament's Shield!
It's quite a good little shield, with +20% to block rate, +20% to block speed, +75% to poison resist, and other good mods. It's naturally the one I have at the moment. This mean my resists have plumeted again, but my block rate is so high now (high 50's) that it doesn't really matter, since I'm blocking more than half the incoming attacks. The shield dropped in the Kurast sewers, which was completely unexpected as this is the best item that's dropped until now. I'm thinking of socketing this with the Act 5 quest (haven't used the ones from Normal and Nightmare yet) and adding diamonds galore to make it even better.

I'm doing quite well at the moment. I've got some good, if not great gear, and block has tremendously boosted my sorceress's power. I've also got a rare amulet with +2 to skills, a rare orb with +2 to Fire skills, as well as Que Hegan's armor (+1 to skills and other goodies). I've shifted to using more Fire skills (especially Fireball, though Meteor has its uses as well) than Frozen Orb, so I'm happy I switched away from boosting Ice Bolt.

The only enemies that pose a real threat are dolls. I've had them spawn in the Swampy Pit, and had to rely heavily on my merc slowing them down and gathering them so I could nuke them with Fireballs from afar. They thankfully didn't spawn in the Kurast sewers, though I expect to see them again in the Durance.