Successors to IWD/BG

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Thoughts aloud... but why hasn't anyone written anything like it since? I don't mean using the same engine, just an ordinary fun RPG. It's curious to note that even the open source community has produced nothing so far. *sigh*

 

Probably because turn-based is bad and real-time is good in gaming right now.

 

BG and IWD were real time just using a turn based system. Pool of Radiance is turn based as is Fallout I think. So I dont think it's because the turn based system isnt compatible with real time games. Maybe gaming companies feel that the market has already been run dry with BG, IWD, NWN and the like. It would seem the RPG market has run into the the MMORPG market. Its a shame though I'd love a game just like BG.

 

I think the guys at gaming companies lost their creativity. They focus on creating 3D graphics, designing "hot elf chick"s to put on game covers but they forget stories. We're living in an age of "image". People care for images more than they care for the game's content. I like old 2D games more than those 3D games. Not only RPGs, newer RTSs suck too. Younger generation is so stupid.

 

I personally prefer the isometric graphics of IWD and the BG series. I'd rather have a 2D view with stunning backgrounds, than blocky, unrealistic 3D environments. I also think a birds eye view is just more appropriate for the party style combat. 3D environments are better for action and adventure games, I'm not sure how you could authentically mix the BG engine with a 3D environment. Until advances in graphics are made I still think the isomentric view would look more graphically pleasing, until more realistic 3D environments can be created. That being said the creators would have to spend more time creating a convincing storyline rather than as Dengo put it, "hot elf chicks", sadly I dont think thats the way the market is moving and graphics are often the be all and end all of games.

 

Maybe because IWD2 didn't sell well. The way game companies work, if one game is successful then they will try to copy its success, and if one game fails they won't. The idea that a game might have failed despite having a good concept (but perhaps poor execution) doesn't really move marketing departments, as that would mean taking risks, and corporations are risk-averse by their nature.

 

Planescape: Torment is the perfect example. One of the best games I've ever played, but shocking sales so we've not seen its like again (and never will).

 

If you can pause the game, it's turn-based. Look at all the options you can choose: pause after a spell, at the end of a round, finding a trap, someone hit, PC injured, weapon unusable, target gone, etc.. Infinity Engine games are simultaneous-based (the enemy acts the same time you do), which gets confused with RTS.

And the other reason, imo, as to why there aren't any good RPGs - everyone is worried about great graphics and writing be damned. Look at Ultima - crappy graphics; great story!

 

Problem is also that you have to have a reasonable amount of intelligence to be able to play and enjoy a game like Torment. So that cuts out a fair chunk of the potential buying population, who will have a much easier time understanding King Kong. Plus, a LOT of people think D&D is the geekiest, nerdiest thing on the planet and won't touch it with a barge pole (e.g. "Euuhh, I'm not going to play with elves and fairies, you sad dice-rolling nobody. Go get a girlfriend, geek-boy")

 

as sad as that is that does seem to be the case.
(its worse when you and your girlfriend play DND together i think they mock the both of you, or it is slightly better because you can say ' i do have a girlfriend' ?)

still BG2, i dont think they had the greatest graphics for the time, or were they? anyway it had pretty good graphics (still does i reckon), great story, both single player and multiplayer, good game length, great customization of characters, cool NPCs, couldnt really ask for much more in a game really, World Of Warcraft doesnt have some of these things and people seem to go on and on about how good WOW is. a game that is like BG2, thats the kind of game i want to play, a huge, epic, game with great story and characters.

oh and BG2 hadeasy to understand 2E rules i dont recall anything too hard. i used to get a little annoyed with 3E rules, picking a class at each level up, and all the feats stuff, one or 2 or 3 classes (in you were multiclassed and sticking with them and proficencies rather than feats. iget it now but when i first started it was a major change from what i was used to.

 

Um - there are plenty of immitations of BG and IWD.

And no - they are not turn based. They're real-time-with-pause.

 

Would you care to give an example?

 

The thing is that I tend to avoid them after reading that they sound like BG/IWD immitations, but I'm thinking games like Divine Divinity, NWN and Dungeon Siege (plus sequels - as well as sequels to BG and IWD). These games - as far as I know - are similar to BG/IWD.

Personally I'd be more prone to moaning about how there are no successors to Ps:T and Fallout (though there are even a few for Fallout - not many, but a few)...

 

Dungeon Siege is actually similar to Diablo 2 not BG. But I think D2 is much better because it has a better replayability value and has better graphics. I agree Duffin that 2D graphics are better for RPGs, 3D is better for action games. An example would be GTA series. 3D GTA games are better than old 2D ones. But for RPGs I prefer beauty of 2D.

 

Yeah, that and Torment looks really effing weird. Mostly because it is really effing weird.

Planescape has never been a popular setting because it's just too odd. Its fans are hardcore, but it don't have that many.

 

Planescape Torment is one of the greatest games ever made. Considering how long BIS has been dead, and how few traditional RPGs are being made these days, BG fans should at least give it a try.

Another good RPG-like series that uses real-time with pause: the somewhat obscure Freedom Force superhero RPG series.

 

The answer is that you don't make games these days. You make marketing of games. You don't sell games. You sell marketed games. Big different.

 

while the original nwn lacks a lot, try Hotu, it has moments that comes close to bg or try the Shadows over daggerford quite possibly the best nwn mod made.

Divine Divinity also spring to mind, decent rpg game.

Bioware is developing dragon age currently, which i for one have a lot of hope for.
Ad i think nwn1 in form of mods and premium mods where great. And i have faith in nwn2 mods.
Kotor was good too.
But its a relative small market, so dont expect title after title.

 

The companies would prefer to say "Fast-paced team-based action-shooters with incredible graphics!" Notice the word 'based'. I.e: no real team-play, but something mimicking it.

Same. Played the new Neverwinter Nights a little while ago and the graphics weren't only (slightly) slow on a new rig, but the camera was difficult to control. In 2D games, at least, you can immediately see what is going on instead of having to toy with the camera first. And perhaps have more than just 3 party-members.

Of course, there are exceptions. KOTOR 2 was a nice game, for example.

 

Temple of Elemental Evil was turn-based, 2D, full party and used a fairly faithful adaptation of 3.5 D&D rules. Yet no one bought it. It hasn't really caught on with the hard-core BG fans, that's for sure.

Game developers, I'm certain, saw how poorly TOEE did and took note to never do a game like it. It's Dungeon Siege clones from now on I fear.