Why Nalia?

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There is no question that there are better mages than Nalia. Better thieves, too. Perhaps even a better thief/mage, though Jan is a little to delicate for my liking. The one thing that made me play the game through with Nalia as my mage was the fact that she can use bows. Not that there aren't some good slings in the game, but arrows generally do more damage and you can't find "flame bullets" or "acid bullets" with which to dispense of trolls. While I admit that there could be more interaction between her and the PC as well as between her and other NPCs, I would certainly not call her useless. Just my two cents.

 

60% is not enough. There's a ring that could boost it, but Nalia's already crunched for ring space. Nalia's thief skills do let her fire bows, but then, so do Imoen's and Jan's.

Nobleman, I had the ring of wizardry on her, and I really wanted to be able to put a regeneration ring onto her when she got wounded. The party she was in didn't have a cleric at first (I was trying out some different NPCs) and just popping the ring on and off would have been very convenient, as she got wounded quite a lot (all the mages do). But Nalia couldn't take the ring of protection off and I hated taking the ring of wizardry off because it makes her forget spells (you don't get to choose which, either). Later I had a cleric, but I found the ring of Gaxx and wanted her to wear that but she couldn't. A ring of protection +2 is a good magic item, but not good enough to glue permanently to your finger in my opinion.

But I think people have answered my question. What is the strength of Nalia? A ring of protection +2. It may be possible to turn that into a true advantage, as Extremist suggests, but it sure does seem like she got a raw deal when they were passing out extra talents. Look at all the cool goodies Haerdalis comes with, or Viconia! An unremovable ring +2? I think Nalia should sue. (-:

She didn't "suck" for me, by the way. She was a completely adequate spellcaster. No more, no less. I just couldn't find any way in which she was better than Imoen, and was wondering if anyone else had. Thanks for the input.

 

Why compare Nalia with Imoen? You get no Imoen until spellhold.

Nalia is simply good if you do want her, in my game she's so charming as wearing robe of good archmagi and has drived me to let Imoen rot in dungeon.

Oh, there's no romancing Nalia...such bummer

 

I've played BG2 through with Nalia in my party since you first meet her in the CC and although she may not be able to memorise as many spells as Edwin, or may be missing a few theiving skill points (which did annoy me at times, but then no one can do everything) she was a good character in my party, and coupled with Imoen a valuable resource. Both of them had some spells in common, but one of them specialised in certain types, for example, Nalia in my party usually had the breaches and dispels ready while Imoen would have things like haste and fire ball.
Yes her ring is a very welcome advantage to her, and why moan about her being crunched for ring space? That ring is very valuable on her with it's bonuses. She also opens up the fighter stronghold quest for you, and her kidnapped subquest leads you to learn about the slavers iirc, leading to the now almost legendary Celestial Fury which everyone loves.
As with every other NPC in BG2 there is a role that she can fill, and in my party it's a second mage, that has a little to offer in the way of thieving skills.
All in all, a good compliment to Imoen, who also can't memorise as much spells as Edwin, with the added advantage of backstabbing and being able to do a bit of fighting with the help from her ring and the right equipment.
Ever noticed how ANY NPC can be worthwhile with 'the right equipment'? Just a little thought...

 

Right then. Summary again:
-choose Nalia at the first part of the game(if you manage to endure her "special"style)
-use her as a "one-step-forward" mage because of his higher abilities and scores;
-drop her if you manage to find the characters you need later;

that's it. and I must repeat: I don't think Nalia sucks, but to me(and compared to Edwin ,Imoen, Aerie) she just won't do. Perhaps if I see the roleplay side, yes. But no other way.

 

There is one thing that has not been spotlighted here:
Imoen is a major part of the storyline. You desperately want to include her in your party. Not doing so results in some very bad excuses or outright evil roleplaying. This is how it has been scripted.

Nalia and Imoen could have been twins. Typically we want to have a heterogenous party to play around with as many parts of the game as possible. This is IMHO the major disadvantage with Nalia.

Her weak thief skills are a nuisance. When you use a thief you expect him/her to take care of the traps and locks. Nalia needs to drink to handle her job.
But what if you let her drink? It's a nuisance, but that's all it is. Spend a few thousand on potions for her and she can do her thieving stuff.

What about Nalia's ring? I think Nobleman pointed out how good it is. It is not just a Ring of Protection +2! +50% Fire resistance in the same ring makes it a superb item. Read Noblemans post one more time if you don't agree!

No room for more rings? Valid point, but how many rings do you want to shuffle around? Ring of Wizardry is the best choice IMO.
Btw, when removing it you loose the "last" memorized spells first so you can plan for it.
Ring of Gaxx goes on a front line character or the protagonist, not ever on Nalia or Imoen.

 

Huh! See, I think Ring of Gaxx goes great on a mage. My fighter usually doesn't need it.

I had Imoen and Nalia both almost from the start of that particular game, Laksol--I went off to Spellhold on day 12 or something. (-:

Anyway, I think Earl Grey's really hit on what was going on with me. I had Imoen and Nalia in the party together almost the whole game. That is not to Nalia's advantage. At that point they are almost identical except for Imoen's competent thief skills, which makes Nalia look like dead weight. Nalia's advantage was a lower AC due to her ring, and that's not an advantage that is immediately evident, because it lowers the AC of the whole back row. Imoen took the better bracers at that point, and Nalia the archery gloves, giving Imoen a better AC than Nalia... but it was Nalia's low AC that made that situation possible.

Fire resistance is a dime a dozen; I think everyone in my party had one or more things that augmented their fire resistance. The +2 to Nalia's AC/saves was an advantage in the early game, though, if an invisible one.

I still think it's not an item that competes with Edwin's amulet or competent thievery. If your main character's not a thief, then taking Nalia instead of Imoen after Spellhold means you have to also take Jan. The Nalia-Jan combination is very weak in combination to Imoen and almost anyone or Jan and almost anyone. Either that or you have to be constantly micromanaging Nalia with potions, which is a huge pain, or wasting her ring space with the trap-finding ring, which would mean no ring of wizardry.

I still wish you'd been able to take her ring on and off, like you can with almost everyone else's special items. That would make it possible to use rings to turn her into a temporary thief or let her regenerate. And I hardly think it would have made her 'special ability' too powerful in comparison with the others.

But I think I now see what her advantage is. It just isn't one that's very valuable at higher levels--and the game designers weren't really focusing on your keeping Nalia around once you'd retrieved Imoen.

 

The fun part is to have a 100% fireresistance without much trouble. She can enter a battle and even throw fireball at herself. sunfire etc.

Imoen and Nalia are equal in finding traps. Tjek I say 60% in open locks isn't a big deal you say it is. I guess we won't convince eachother. against those locks my friend and I really want to open we have one or two knock spells. And we keep a few potions of thievery on us.

we have the problem with the ring of wizardry that you experienced. But as my friend said, he hates to ditch her of some arbitrary reason because we have been through so much together. Ditching her in Bodhi lair would be evil too.

I am sorry to hear that you have so much faith in regenerating rings tjek, that you don't even bother bring a cleric along. Then I can see why you begun to puzzle about her assets. But as many people says. She opens a lot of adventures and you do get through a lot with her. And I do always have some means of healing other than rings. Excuse me if that is a flaw.

[This message has been edited by Nobleman (edited September 26, 2001).]

 

Nalia has two major strengths: First, she has a nice ring. Second, she is the ONLY GOOD-ALIGNED PURE (or almost pure) SPELLCASTER. Many parties have no choice but to use her; personally, I'd take Imoen any day, but that's as much a roleplaying attachment as a powergaming one.

 

And what's the big deal with that? Imoen can acheive exact the same level as Nalia as a Mage...

 

Huh? Imoen's good-aligned too.

I never said I hated clerics! Quite the contrary, I said I didn't have any for a while in this game because I was giving characters I rarely used a chance. Hence, Nalia in the first place. Hence, no Viconia or Jaheira, who I almost always use.

This is rapidly devolving away from anything even vaguely useful, into a "Nalia sucks" "She does not!" "You're stupid" "You're a powergamer" "Why don't you like clerics?" fest.

All I wanted to know was whether Nalia had any special attributes. Of COURSE she could be competent even if she had no special attributes. An absolutely average PC can solo this game. Nalia could be a worthwhile addition to the party even if she had no abilities, no thief levels, no ring, and all stats of 12. (Well, except INT, but you get my point.) She was perfectly capable in my party. All I wanted to know was whether she had any -special- features, because every other NPC does. Is there anything about her that in any way makes her better than Imoen, who she otherwise resembles almost exactly only with poorer thief skills?

I got my answer. Yes. She has a ring of protection +2.

Now I know.

 

Such a relief this is over...it seemed so pointless in many times.

 

You do get agitated fast. Did I call you stupid? No. Did I say you hated clerics? No. Did I imply you meant Nalia sucked? no? Did I say you're a powergamer? No.

You said Nalia was useless as a thief next to Imoen. and I find that wrong. She is as good as Imoen to find traps and when her open lock fails it can easily be countered for. She doesn't have any special features like Edwin because she is strong and efficient as she is. what makes her special is not her ring but the many quests tied to her person. The ring makes her an efficient battlemage as I described above, with enhanced weapon choices.

Ok I have been a mean motorscooter but I was just irritated by your swift conclusion that she was useless as a thief and a scab replacement for Imoen. Both not true.

peace?

 

It wasn't just you. It's very frustrating to ask a detailed question about what Nalia's specific tactical strengths are and get back half a dozen "Nalia sucks" posts, other people talking about her cool side quests or saying she's cute and they wish they could have romances with her, more people complaining about my play style without even reading my post very carefully. Yes, I *know* Nalia has interesting side quests. I did them all on my very first game. Yes, I *did* play Nalia through a complete game. I didn't start this thread to insult anyone's choice of her as a party member, I was asking a specific tactical question about her. I can't believe how many people either responded saying she sucks or I do, not to mention picking apart stupid details of my post like who I put the ring of Gaxx on or the fact that I ran without a cleric for part of the game.

It's a GAME, people! If I asked whether *you* had any above-average traits, it might be an insult. When I ask it about a mage in a CRPG, it's really just tactical curiosity. What next, I'm going to ask whether a halberd proficiency can compete with a two-handed sword one and get defensive responses?

*shakes head*

I'm sorry I ever brought this up. What I've learned hasn't been worth all this hassle.

 

None have mentioned the extremely funny dialogue that Korgan and Jaheira have with Miss D'Arnise....I'm embarassed to admit I forgot all of it, but when Korgan insulted Nalia about being "overtall" I laughed out loud.
Something I have decided is good...start all your human mages as fighters or thieves and play a couple or few levels for higher hit points and archery proficiency. Bows usually fire twice per round as opposed to once for slings. I think you can also use a helmet and shield if you dualed from a fighter and a buckler if you dualed from a thief.

 

tjekanefir, You wrote:
... not to mention picking apart stupid details of my post like who I put the ring of Gaxx on...

What is this about? It looks like total bullsh*t to me.

Perhaps you're just in a bad mood? IMHO you have totally overreacted and read things that aren't there into posts.
It just won't do to complain about the answers in general either. If you have an objection to make I think you should specify the poster and exactly what he/she said. For example, I would have been upset by Extremists first post if I were you and I would have made a response directed at him specifically... but of course Extremist is well, Extremist.

The way your latest post was formulated makes me believe that you were feeling insulted by what I have written since I'm the only one that mentions the Ring of Gaxx except for you.

[This message has been edited by Earl Grey (edited September 27, 2001).]

 

Ladies, please don't fight...

 

While I hate to butt into this discussion of who has most 8th level spells and looks most chic in a Ring of Gaxx my reason for keeping Nalia was much more simple - she was in my party already. To explain, on my first run through the game I knew nothing about who was available, and picked up the first people I met and liked the look of. My party ended up as
Me (Ranger)
Minsc
Jaheira
Anomen
Yoshimo
Nalia
By the time I met Imoen again, it was quite late in the game, and the character had been through so much with all of them that he didn't want to say "OK, I don't want you any more" just because he thought someone else might be a little better at it. I don't play chop-and-change unless you have to (eg Planar Sphere quest). Obviously I was helped by the fact that when I met Imoen I had a spare slot in my party...
On a more practical level, of course Nalia is the only good (nearly) pure mage - Aerie can also do the mage stuff, but of course takes twice as long to get the levels; the party didn't like the look of Edwin when we met him. And when we met Imoen, her spell book was naturally far less developed that Nalia, which meant she kept on as the main spell caster, with Imoen generally learning spells to compensate. In the end I think I had a nicely balanced party - four tanks, two mages, two priestly casters and one scout (sort of).
OK, some of the characters are annoying. But when they've saved your ass more than a few times, should a good-aligned character leave them behind at the pub?

 

Uh, this topic is going to be a real trench war So I seem to have to add my two cents to add a degree of confusion to the hostility already here

What everyone seems to ignore: As a char Nalia is the absolute failure, starting with a murderous and stupid character creation.

First: (and most important) She is doubtless thge worst thief in the whole game, at least the game designers could have added all her thieving abilities to *one* discipline to make give her at least *one* usuable thieving ability, but no, the spread them for total uselessness - STUPID

Second: Since a lvl-4 plain thief is pretty useless, they should have at least decided to choose the Swashbuckler kit instead, but they didn't consider this - STUPID
The Advantages of a swashbuckler are so obvious: Since backstabbing with her is a madness anyway, they should have enabled her at least to gain the AC bonus and the ** weapon style and weapon proficiencies for emergency use
Additionally imho the swashbuckler would have been a better choice considering roleplay (Nalia is noble)

Yes, her ring is nice and advantageous. So you have to consider her a mage with ST and AC boni. No thanks - she doesn't fit in my parties

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited September 27, 2001).]

 

*casts silence*