Don't wanna kill Firkraag

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It may seem strange, but in my last game, I didn't want to kill Firkraag. I had no Paladin so I wasn't interested in the sword anyway. And after he had spoken, it seemed it wasn't necessary to kill him.
It's more important to save the girl, you don't risk your life fighting a dragon while the girl could die, do you?
And after that... why come back and kill him? Wasn't he polite towards you? Wasn't he fair? When you talk to him, he tells you why he tricked you because of your father, then that it was fun but that it's over, that he doesn't want to kill you, he has had enough entertainment. He's eager to see how you will fare with Irenicus. And he lets you save the girl (you just have to kill a last clown).
Indeed, in the thread, you may thank him for his charity.
So it seems you can leave, not friends, but as gentlemen. It's not like the dragon of Shade, who's very impolite.
Did you already spare him for this reason? Is it necessary to kill him if you're good?

 

He is evil, so if you're a good character you should kill him. And he tricked you once; can you say he won't do it again (from perspective of your main character)?

[ June 04, 2005, 00:14: Message edited by: Jathszu Khatharua ]

 

Being good does not mean youhave to walk the realm killing everything that blips "red" on an detect allignment check .

 

Capt Massacre. My thoughts exactly. I could see no role playing justification for killing that dragon. It wasn't until much later on these Boards that I gathered that killing him is seen as essential. But I've never killed him because it never made any sense to me.

 

but even if you help him he won't give you 10000 gold that he promised

 

There IS a good reason for going back and killing him if you are a 'good' character. It makes no difference if he is polite to you while you are talking to him. For a nutural or evil character this may carry a lot of weight. They only think of themselves and how they are treated. And they care about no one else. But a good character is supposed to care about "good" not just how someone treats them. Now, think back. He did play games with you before the polite chat. He did trick you into killing good aligned knights with his illusion. Did you forget? According to Gerran he has done it before, tricking people into killing each other. You or one of your party could have been killed during that battle. The orcs, etc he keeps in his hold as his army also go out and kill. You think he will not collect another army after you leave?

No, he his evil and does evil things. Any good aligned character has a duty to kill him and save innocent people. No matter how nice he treated you face-to-face.

 

But they're only killing 'em as a hobby now...

Seriously, my argument for killing him would be more about getting justice for Gerran. And, in any event, who says good characters have to be perfect? Maybe my CG guy just really wants revenge on him for giving him a bad day.

 

I never killed him. He always kicked my butt.

 

The way I see it, an evil character would be even more compelled to kill Firkraag. He has f**ked you over and might even try that again (as has already been said), despite his "charity".

Thus, being evil, you should be ten times more itching for vengeance as a neutral or good character.

 

Unless maybe the evil character's particular obsession is self-preservation, and he doesn't want to get toasted unless he really, really has to.

 

Well - a goodie two-shoes character would slay him for the good of all and for the glory of a dragon-slayer, better dkph rate too (dragons killed per hour).
A bad arse would kill him for the treasure or for the very pleasure of spillin' some dragon guts.

So I think the only chance for poor old Firkraag lies in "true neutral"

P.S. forgot to mention that monks just kill him for fun while doing some other more boring task

 

and also, he kidnapped innocent person

 

As for Gerran, Firkraag tells you he's better off without responsabilities after all, so in a way, Firkraag did the good. Maybe he's lying, but it seems possible. Of course, it doesn't wipe out all the evil done.

As for the ogres trick, this is indeed evil. But maybe that's what you should expect from a dragon? And remember, Firkraag didn't pick you by chance, he had a score to settle with Bhaal's blood. You don't know what Bhaal did to him, but maybe it wasn't 100% good either? Firkraag can't revenge directly, so he makes you suffer and causes you to kill innocent people. In his dragon ethics, it's perfectly acceptable. You're no ordinary man. You have an heritage. You may be held responsible for things your father did, that could be very ugly. More than an ordinary man, you can understand Firkraag's views.

In the game, you don't eradicate all that is evil anyway. The Shadow Thieves are evil. Your friend Aran Linvail is an horrible man. Did you explore his fortress? Did you talk to the man who was going to die very slowly? You can't even mercy kill him.

My hesitation comes from the way the talking is done. Firkraag doesn't say "look, I'm evil, and after you go, I'll kill a lot of people as usual!". Rather, the way it goes,if you decide to kill him, YOU seem to choose an unecessary violent path.
After the conversation, I couldn't say "this dragon is 100% evil", there was something else in his behaviour.

In Star Wars, imagine Yoda saying "Luke, Vader is evil, so you will kill him (plus, I don't say he's your father...)"
'But, he still has good in him...'
'No matter! He has done evil! Go and kill him!'

 

Well here is the way personally think that each alignment group should do to Firkraag.

Lawful Good- Kill him. Firkraag has broken a contract with the character, has harassed the lord Windspear and stolen his lands and if left alive he would cause mischief and deaths for many, perhaps for centuries to come. If the party would not be powerful enough to destroy the beast they would at least have to report of his presence to someone who could do something about him. The paladins of Athkalta would be a nice choice.

Neutral Good- Kill him. Pretty much for the same reasons as the Lawful Good.

Chaotic Good- Kill him. Once again pretty much the same reasons as in the lawful good, good people just can't let a creature such as Firkraag exist in peace if it's found.

Lawful Neutral- Kill him or force him to pay the 10 000 he owes you. He made an agreement with you which you followed and should pay the price. If Firkraag would be too powerful for the party they should leave him alone.

True Neutral- Diffcult to say. If they were satisfied with the loot they've found and not too irritated on Firkraag they could leave him alone. No point in risking your life when you've allready
gotten tons of items and gold from the dungeon, and he let go of the girl too.

Chaotic Neutral- Too difficult to say anything. Chaotic Neutral characters tend to be unpredictable and therefore thir motives and reasons vary a lot.

Lawful Evil- Kill him. He broke the contract and if he refuses to follow it he should be taught a lesson.

Neutral Evil- Difficult to say. A neutral evil character would most likely be pissed of at the dragon for messing around with him but it might not be enough to put him to attack a powerful dragon.

Chaotic Evil- Kill him, get drunk, rape the girl and kill lord Windspear. Ok so the last three are not necessary in order to follow the alignment but the first one pretty much is. Any bastard who messes with the greatest of bhaalspawns should die a horrible death, besides dragons are known to carry a lot of treasure.

Of course I now disregard all sorts of other roleplaying facts which might affect the party's decicion (Such as the fact that they might not know exactly what kind of malice a red dragon can cause or are overly intimitated by its precence even if they were powerful enough to slay the beast) and concentrated only on alignments. I assume others may feel differently about the issue though. Alignment is a thing to be taken into consideration but not to be followed blindly when roleplaying (following the alignment blindly simplifies and limits the characer), so if your character goes against the choices I've put forth it would not necesseraly be bad roleplaying in my opinion.

I think I have allways killed Firkraag when I've gone through the game. I don't use much roleplay when I play single player games since there's no use and it greatly limits the game for me (except in Planescape Torment where I just MUST roleplay but that's a different topic). I often pick the evil choice in one quest and the good choice in some other quest, depending on what I gain/loose from it.

[ June 06, 2005, 11:08: Message edited by: Morgoroth ]

 

@Morgoroth: Here's your chaotic neutral

Chaotic Neutral (my favorite)- His *tail is bigger than mine. KILL IM!!!

Truly my justification was that my caharcter was being haunted by demons that used to work for Bhaal, and the demons are constantly whispering things to him, and they basically gaoded him into it with threats, hubris, enticing deals, and one said "I've never seen a dragon die before."

[ June 06, 2005, 08:33: Message edited by: The Irreligious Paladin ]

 

Capt Massacre: I believe Firrkraag is actually referring to Gorion in the dialogue (I could be wrong but can't check for sure atm.) as I am sure the harpers are also mentioned.

I think it is likely that many people wouldn't think Gorion is evil and that himself and the harpers wouldn't chase after Firkraag without good reason. This could probably be seen as bitterness as being caught for his crimes, much like Ployer.

Firkraag says that the games bore him and that he is interested in how you deal with Irenicus. So the death of the paladins means nothing? How many has he killed for amusement and regarded it as something to simply pass the time? He is interested in your dealings because there is so much death and destruction, amusement, he doesn't have to do the whole evil laugh and "I am an evil dragon who will eat you and then destroy a few small villages and perhaps half of Amn" because doing that is barely worth the effort. He would most likely do it to alleviate boredom.

Dragons are intelligent creatures and will not likely kill off a passing adventurer if it is possible to torment and watch their activities, perhaps as a hobby. Firkraag sends one of his disciples to kill you, surely after he watched his whole group of Orcs, Rakshasa and golems slaughtered he would realise a single mage will pose a very small threat. He lets you play hero, yet is it really heroic to leave the situation so open that he could easily do it again if he thought it would be fun?

I'm not arguing that you should kill him. Just saying how I think he is evil.

 

@ 8people

Firrkraag indeed metions Gorion by name, saying he still bears the scars of that encounter. He says it was long ago, though not so long to a Dragon.

 

what is firkraag do with Gorion? I've never played BG1.

 

Chickavalier, he does nothing to him, the incident happened before the PC and Gorion met

 

i usually play Chaotic alignment and it's not hard to find excuses to kill an arrogant dragon who thinks he can toy with your life just for amusement. by the way i love the song "addicted to chaos"