Perceiving the Universe

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Tarsakh.. I dont know what you´re getting at, but I can´t call a concept "pure chaos" till I´ve seen "pure order"

@Capstone
That theorie means that all the mass around you, is made of energy, and that energy is made of mass, etc.

There is no before and there is no after, because if there was no energy and mass, how would you define the concept "time"??

 

But, based on a slightly hazy recollection of reading some of Stephen Hawking's work , according to quantum physics, the relative levels of both chaos and order in the universe must remain constant, relative to each other. So to says chaos theory, albeit somewhat less positively. Therefor, it seems to me that the uneverse must be in a delicate state of balance between chaos and order, anarchy and law.

Or something like that.

 

The answer to life the univers and everything is:

42!

No Really...

 

The thing is, see, since the answer is definitely 42, you must not know the question. Did you ever think of what the question to the life, universe and everything might be?

 

That is why our earth exists you know, to figure out the proper question.
Too bad that stupid intergalactic road office or whatever decided to bulldoze us into oblivion.

 

I'm not sure it has to be that way. You are correct that the law of non-contradiction (nothing can ever equal something is a good example)is a presupposition or belief that, once you hold it, takes you in a certain direction--but only if you will let it.

 

A little inane, but am I the only person around here who is interested by the fact that all of the interesting and cutting-edge public physics-related discoveries are to do with things that are very small (like quarks) or very large (like... the universe, I suppose)? Just a thought.

 

small and large are rather subjective concepts

 

I know that size is all relative, but come on! Quarks are the smallest things in the universe which man is currently aware of (actually neutrinos might be smaller, but I can't be bothered to go searching for the relevant info right now...), and the universe contains absolutely everything in existence in it. They are pretty damn small and large, respectively

 

Define "Universe" please, what excatly is it?

 

Defining the Universe

The universe is, speaking mathmatically, a set. Within that set, a variety of properties that may or may not be known to us exists. We have less certitude than we would like because our knowledge is highly subjective--can't view the universe from the outside, compare it to other like objects, squeeze it and see if creme comes out, and so forth.

In our case, we know that the universe is a finite space which contains a finite amount of matter and energy. We know this inductively, but nevertheless, it's hardly disputable. To talk about an infinite physical object or an infinite amount of energy is like talking about a square circle--it's just word-salad, goofy talk.

Different religions suggest and personal experience suggests that it is not a closed system; that other...I'm not sure what term to use...."non-physical beings" I suppose is best...can and do interact with our universe. That they are non-physical means they are also non-energy, so they are something "other."

Then the question is raised, "Where do they come from?" and "What is that place like?" Well, that's outside our universe. Kant said we can't know about that place (upper story/lower story illustration) but then he went on to postulate some fascinating things about this other "place."

The Bible claims to go beyond speculation, but so do many other religious documents. The question is which (if any) religion is internally coherent and externally validated. I believe Christianity, some flavors better than others, does a fine job at meeting both claims. But that's beside the point.

I agree with someone who called to question the whole issue of "big" and "small" and perspective. Haven't you seen Men in Black II?

 

Morgoth, well I meant to say it is just chaos. And order in itself is a form of chaos, because you need an entropee, or the entrance of a foreign thing, like chaos.

 

Define me the concepts Choas and Order

How can order be a form of chaos, since one excludes the other?

I'll respond to BGP's reply when school is over

 

Chaos cannot be defined without defining order, nor can order be defined without using chaos. Thus, it is impossible to prove any of the "pure chaos" or "pure order" theories within existance.

Have any others here ever heard of the Dark Matter theory? That what we consider to be "space" is actually a different, primordial form of matter rather than a vacuum. Astrophysicists now believe that the matter of which the universe is composed came from that.

 

And guess what? There is zero experimental evidence for dark matter. They've tried everything to pinpoint its existence, and they just can't find it. So far, it exists only in theories. So, a more correct statement would be that some astrophysicists believe dark matter to be the source material for the universe. Of course, you still have to deal with the question (once you ever find dark matter) of where dark matter comes from.

BGP, I enjoyed your post. Might I suggest that the reason that personal experience points to a metaphysical dimension is because we do actually have a sense that contacts that "dimension" (for lack of a better term). The sense is often referred to as faith, and we have a metaphysical "self" called the soul (which is what separates humans from animals). This metaphysical aspect of humans is what leads to what is known as the paranormal, including miracle workers, faith healers, and even channels and other phenomena.

Kam, I'm not sure what you're referring to about the balance of chaos and order. I've read some of Stephen Hawking as well, and I don't recall what he said about that... can you clarify?

 

Capstone, we have still yet to find out what dark matter really is.

The total mass of all the stars, planets, asteroids, etc, is just around 4% of the total mass of the universe, what is the other 96%??


oh and about where dark matter comes from, you have yet to explain me where God comes from

 

No.... the total mass you're talking about is only required by certain theories. The only one I can specifically remember right now is the collapsing/critical model of the universe, suggesting that the universe will stop expanding at some point and either collapse in on itself or else slow and eventually lead to heat death. However, the expansionist model (wherein the universe continues to expand infinitely) does not require this extra mass. It is, however, much less intuitive (how can the universe expand infinitely anyway?), which is why many astrophysicists are convinced that there must be some missing mass in something. An as yet unknown force is an alternative to missing mass as well.

 

Capstone, dark matter is for now the "nickname" of that missing mass

 

Yes, thank you, I'm aware of that. If there was a part of my post you did not understand, please point it out and I will clarify. I realize it was not terribly well-written. I'm becoming less intelligible in my old age.

 

To prevent the universe from expanding endlessly (which would be impossible, since "endless" cant exist) we need a "dark matter".
But you cant define endless since, endless isnt a number.