A European's thoughts on world opinion

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really funny!!!!

 

bushs policy towards Iraq is just an excuse for further destruction-by that I min North Korea which is probably soon to come on cowboys(Bush) destruction list! I would like an opinion!

[ May 01, 2003, 23:49: Message edited by: Fedja_1 ]

 

Is Europe right now in the position to dictate terms of world politics. Is the US really the mightiest country today. What about China? I mean...does political Europe include Russia or not?

 

Well...America is definitly not the strongest or, God forbid, greatest worlds nation. Europe, and I do not have to say and Russia because it was somehow always part of Europe, can ware the name of the greatest world NATION-it will, I believe, very soon become that. Americans are just mix of cultures, rednecks with big guns unaware of the existance of the rest of the world till recently.It is thruly sad. Just think of the benefits of working together-Europe and America-just a fragile wish, nothing more!

 

Hm.. this thread has become quite a waste of bandwidth.

 

Hey Pacman, not my fault. Anyway, what's your stance on terrorism. Still, they're after "free" people and kill them because of their "lifestyle" ?

 

EuroPHOBIC, Yago? Do you see Jack Funk (or any other American who gets tired of the bashing) as having something to fear from Europe? Please. What I find interesting about these worn-out themes is that they always start east of the Atlantic. As I'm sure I'll tell my son someday when he comes home in tears from an encounter with a playground bully, "There there, don't fret. Those bullies call names because they don't have anything else to do. They can't back up what they say. They're just jealous of you." Even knowing that all the America-bashing is just a way for Europeans to blow off some steam, it still gets pretty old, pretty fast. But if that's how you need to get your jollies, enjoy.

As far as the topic goes, i have to wonder this: if the German economy is so wonderfully strong, why did the Bundesbank recently privatize its highest-rated debt holdings? What kind of sense is there to killing a revenue stream to generate some fast cash? Not much - until you realize that the cash was then put into US treasuries - a classic flight to safety. And the same thing is happening in Japan, your other example of a strong economy. In their case, the central bank is getting ready to make a grab for the cash in the Postal Service Pension Fund, which will wipe out thousands and thousands of rural pensioners.

While the American economy certainly isn't as strong as the Bush administration claims, it's still the best game in town. With any kind of luck, central bankers will realize that economics is a GLOBAL science before it's too late.

 

I never said that the US economy was weak and poor. Never. I simply pointed out that the next 3 richest economies are richer than the US economy. I am not writing any of this to "bash" America. Why would I do that? I am writing this so that I can hear a bunch of opinions from all over the world and, maybe, to widen my own perspective.

 

Just popping up to say that America (and Americans since it could affect their lifestyle) has something to fear from Europe: the Euro. I understand the dollar being used worldwide is important to the US economy. If the Euro take its place, there could be trouble in Wall Street.
About jealousy, are you sure everyone wants to live like Americans? Is homo americanus the pinnacle of human evolution? Not sure. Criticizing American policy is not jealousy from weaklings-who-want-to-rule-the-world-in-our-place (though such people exist), but rather indignation of people who see how bad the US is ruling the world.

 

Surprisingly, I agree with you Rallymama. But just from an other viewpoint.

1. I did not start the bashing. Jack Funk did. (But I confess, that I am as childish as Jack Funk) And I did not say anything bad about America in general. I personally think it's getting really old. It's obvious, in the Alley you state opinions with which others not agree. That's the idea of it, at least in my view it is the idea of it. But everytime someone states an opinion, it's Amercia-bashing, Euro-bashing, America-bashin, Euro-bashing. Instead of arguing a point or making an interesting discussion: you're Antiamrican, you're anti-French, you're Anti-american, you're anti-French. I personally would like to see an end of it. But I am pessimist.

Imho, coming with the American-bashin-bogeyman is just a cheap way to avoid discussion.

2. The Times of Europa and America are over anyway. Asia is back. So, I don't agree with the view of a too powerfull America. That does not mean, that Europe is strong. Asia is.

3. To the use of Europhobia, Americaphobia (Antiamericanism in the USA) -> As far as I know, Phobia (Fear) is used, when someone has a distaste for something. Like in arachnophobia, homophobia, xenophobia. And the other way around. Me, I am anglophil. If I wasn't an anglophil, I wouldn't be writing on this board in this language, would I ?
So, "phobia" is usually not something 100% rational nor has it necessarily (sp ?) to be linked with real need of fear. Some people just kill a spider as fast as possible, when they see it, but there's no real "danger" coming from that spider. I would be happy to discuss these theme with you, Rallymama, I if you want to. That is not kidding and I really would like to know you're opinion.

4. Economy. I never said that the European Economy is stronger the the American. I made some comments that some decision of the US-administration in charge are, in my view, not so smart (you may call that America-bashing if you like). I just said, that both sides of the pond are economically equall and so tight, that frictions are going to hurt. And I stated, decisive ecenomic power is vested in China. I am deeply convinced, that the 21-first century is the Chinese-century (and Indian). So, and not trying to be offending, I don't know why you tell me something about the state of the German economy ?

I never pretendend to something else than white trash. I never said, that I am "cultural". Depaara, Ragusa, Death Rabbit and Chevalier have manners, I have not. I just saw some views I disagreed with and Jack Funk, a child like me. So, you're free to disagree, but if someone calls me names, I am childish enough to do the same.

 

First, I just want to apologize for "rednecks",I have obviously overseen some rules...wont happen again...I think that we are in, as it is said in chess,pat position, corcerning America. Here we are, talking what have Amerivans done, what will they do in the future, what is their style of life(what we dont like about it to be more execurate),etc. But, what can we, by we mean the wholE Europe do? As I see it, we can not advise them any more because we tried several times and they simply didnt listen( or will not listen, pick one). The second option, anti-american extrimists will say, would be war. But european-american war we would have to call Armagedon-it would be the end of everything(besides, war was never, and will never be a good tool for dealing things). And the third option would be an alliance. It would be the most useful and the most productive alliance the world and mankind had ever seen,but...the problem again, as it seems to me, lies on the other side of the ocean.So I ask you-what is to be done?

[ May 02, 2003, 12:19: Message edited by: Fedja_1 ]

 

With a population of 1 400 000 000 people, China is the greatest nation in the world today. Their economy is growing very fast...it is a matter of years before Chine will want a piece of the cake. The world is till huge, and rich in resources. So if Europe has one been the imperialist, the US is, according to some, the imperialist, who will be the imperialist in the near future? China. India is a huge nation (1 000 000 000 people) but India is ages behind China regarding development. When Marco Polo first visited China, he said: "Thank God that the Chinese are not a war-mongering people."


Think about what will happen in the near future. The US has recently made a couple od friends (GB, Spain) and a horde of enemies (people across the world). Europe knows that it must unite in order to become #1 once more. Russia's economy will soon begin to thrive (Russia is probably the richest country in the world concerning coal, iron, uranium, oil...). And China is rising, and fast.


This makes a flamable situation. One spark will ignite conflict. NO ONE wants that. But people are not wise. We are smart, but not wise. So I ask you....why do the US and Russia still have 27 000 nuclear war heads each? Why does Russia have the largest tank-force in the world, and why does China have the largest number of fighter planes in the world? I hope just for show...

 

"Charlie Daniels' Open Letter to the Hollywood Bunch"


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


OK -- Let's just say for a moment you bunch of
pampered, overpaid, unrealistic children
had your way and the U.S.A. didn't go into Iraq.


Let's say that you really get your way
and we destroy all our nuclear weapons
and stick daisies in our gun barrels
and sit around with some white wine and cheese
and pat ourselves on the back,
so proud of what we've done for world peace.


Let's say that we cut the military budget to
just enough to keep the National Guard
on hand to help out with floods and fires.


Let's say that we close down
our military bases all over the world
and bring the troops home,
increase our foreign aid
and drop all the trade sanctions
against everybody.


I suppose that in your fantasy world
this would create a utopian world
where everybody would live in peace.
After all, the great monster,
the United States of America,
the cause of all the world's trouble
would have disbanded it's horrible military
and certainly all the other countries
of the world would follow suit.


After all, they only arm themselves
to defend their countries from the mean old U.S.A.


Why you bunch of pitiful, hypocritical,
idiotic, spoiled mugwumps.
Get your head out of the sand
and smell the Trade Towers burning.


Do you think that a trip to Iraq by Sean Penn
did anything but encourage a wanton murderer
to think that the people of the U.S.A.
didn't have the nerve or the guts to fight him?


Barbra Streisand's fanatical and hateful rankings
about George Bush makes about as much sense
as Michael Jackson hanging a baby over a railing.


You people need to get out of Hollywood
once in a while and get out into the real world.
You'd be surprised at the hostility you would find out here.


Stop in at a truck stop and tell an overworked,
long distance truck driver that you don't think
Saddam Hussein is doing anything wrong.


Tell a farmer with a couple of sons in the military
that you think the United States
has no right to defend itself.


Go down to Baxley, Georgia and hold an anti-war rally
and see what the folks down there think about you.


You people are some of the most disgusting examples
of a waste of protoplasm I've ever
had the displeasure to hear about.


Sean Penn, you're a traitor to the United States of America.
You gave aid and comfort to the enemy.
How many American lives will your little,
"fact finding trip" to Iraq cost?
You encouraged Saddam to think
that we didn't have the stomach for war.


You people protect one of the most evil men
on the face of this earth and won't lift a finger
to save the life of an unborn baby.
Freedom of choice you say?


Well I'm going to exercise
some freedom of choice of my own.


If I see any of your names on a marquee,
I'm going to boycott the movie.
I will completely stop going to movies if I have to.
In most cases it certainly wouldn't be much of a loss.


You scoff at our military whose boots
you're not even worthy to shine.


They go to battle and risk their lives
so ingrates like you can live in luxury.


The day of reckoning is coming
when you will be faced with the undeniable truth
that the war against Saddam Hussein
is the war on terrorism.


America is in imminent danger.


You're either for her or against her.
There is no middle ground.


I think we all know where you stand.


What do you think?


God Bless America!


Charlie Daniels
Copyright (c) 2003 Charlie Daniels

http://www.techwarelabs.com/community/printview.php?t=3550&start=0

 

And the rule is not to call Americans "war-mongers"?

Somebody once said Amrica is going through puberty. And that is the truth. America is young, really young when compared to the old world (Europe, Asia, Northern Africa). And now, for the first time, the US has a big problem. A whole bunch of enemies. In WW2 the US didn't win the war. Russia did. The US didn't really suffer in WW2 nearly as much as Europe did. And that is exactly why most Europeans are pacifists. Because war only brings more war. It doesn't solve anything. Especially unjust wars that the whole world is against.

[ May 02, 2003, 16:36: Message edited by: Malaqai ]

 

@ Yago

My stance on terrorisme ? Well, it should be dealt with swiftly, for as far that's possible. But you can't go and attack every country, that MAY have relations with terrorist groups. That could get quite complicated, after all, the IRA are also terrorists, and so are the RAF, the ETA, the CCC, and so on and on and on. It's not just a muslim thing.

@ Malaqai

You need to check your history books again dude, or is it that you just hate America ?
Russia won the war ? If that's your opinion,i ask you, where did the material come from with which they build their tanks and planes ?

 

Yago, Yago, Yago.
I have been essentially dormant on these boards for the last 4 months. I had essentially given up trying to debate and discuss. You, in particular, have been ignored. Despite the rhetoric, lack of facts, etc.

In over two years here I have encouraged discussion and debate as much, if not more, than anyone else here. Try the search engine. It works wonders.
Here's what usually happens:
1. Someone makes a wild statement (as Malaqai did in the initial post)
2. Someone calls them on it (as I did in my reply)
3a. then the discussion goes off into some off topic pissing contest. Sort of like you bringing up losses in WW1 as if it is relevant to the topic.
and/or
3b. The person who made the initial statement ignores the response (as Malaqai did in this case).

This is why I hardly ever respond in these types of topics anymore. I do read them. There is much to be learned from all of the people around the world who come hear. Some people actually give meaningful posts and can stick to a topic. Yago, you are not one of them.

On topic, I think that the emergence of the Euro and the European Union is wonderful. The countries of Europe have been great trading partners for years and the EU should only make this better. Threatened? By some competition? That is what a strong economy is based on.
Besides, if the EU does eclipse the US, and that is better for the world, then I will welcome it.

 

That may be true. My posts may be not meaningfull and they may never be on topic. But than, it's not you who is deciding in the last instance ? Or am I mistaken ?

Seems to me, you evoked the "oh oh oh oh American-basher"-Boogeyman. You did not show anything new or convincing. My opinion still stands. It's a cheap way to avoid discussion.

Seems to me, you started the pissing too. You just claimed something which is just plain not true. Actually rubbish, a very weird explanation. As it would take some kind of courage to bomb a country which obviously isn't able to defend itself. On the other hand, WW1 proves, that France doesn't fold ant the first sign of aggression. So I just asked you to get your facts straight. France didn't join, because the plans of your Goverments are rubbish. Now, you may say, what I say is rubbish. But then I say, what you say is rubbish. I don't claim that I am not childish and that it was smart of me to piss back at you. But, whatever. I don't think its something I won't do again, as soon I get a chance.

That is probably true. But not my problem. I am new here. And I find it's quite a good site. I plan to stay here for a while. At least if the Admins don't kick me out. Well, it still remains the same, you may think my arguements are stupid, my facts are rubbish. I may think the same of you and your statements. I guess that's the downside of free speech and freedom of thought for both of us, isn't it ? Or is it the beauty of it ?

And it's propably true, in a popularity contest you would win and I would lose. But what the heck, it's the internet. Popularity doesn't count.

And there's one more thing. Weird international **** on the Internet. People who have no common sense and not a minimum respect for other countries or their own countries. I guess they are common around the world and I think you will have to get used to them.

 

I just wanted to mention a couple things about economics raised in the initial post.

First, I think it sort of missed the point of my essay to nit pick at economic figures.

That said, I think some of your information isn't... accurate. You're talking about profits, which, I haven't seen as an economic indicator that is widely used. I suspect because it is incredibly difficult if not nearly impossible to calculate. Typical indicators used by economists are the GDP, GNP, GDP per capita, consumption, investment, government spending, net exports, and competitiveness. The most widely used indicator is the GDP, which of course has its problems:

Despite the weaknesses, as the explanation indicates, GDP is the best we have. Your comparison is not of GDP. You do mention per capita GDP but your figures are incorrect (now, you state that the most recent figures you could find were a half decade old so perhaps there have been a lot of changes.

Regarding per capita GDP, you specifically stated that there was an equality that I do not believe exists:

The above figures come from the International Monetary Fund and are current as of November 2002.

Perhaps you didn't mean per capita GDP. There are other, less accepted indicators. For example, perhaps you meant GDP per hour worked. Expressed as a percent to compare to the US, these indicators can be determined to reveal:

Another indicator commonly used is GDP as a percentage of global economy (I'm sure the following table won't come out well for which I apologize. It is comprised of the nation, %GDP relative to the world, total population, and % population relative to world):

So, these are just some economic indicators. I only bring them up since there were some statements made about economics above that I feel were unfounded and incorrect (for example statements regarding China which is quite a mess at this point.)

Again, this however somewhat misses the point of my previous point in the other thread by focusing on one small nit rather than the whole point of the thread; for example, I specifically rejected that jealousy was the cause of the world's opinion (though I'm sure it plays a role for some at least.)

Economics is tough and macro ecnomics is tougher. For the future, I think it could be helpful to have sources and a clearer indication of what you are talking about. Here are the sources I used for the above:

http://www.econedlink.org/lessons/index.cfm?lesson=em

http://esl.jrc.it/envind/un_meths/UN_ME015.htm

http://stats.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1999/07/art3full.pdf (on labor productivity specifically, it may be misleading if you aren't familiar with this).


With all of that said, I think this is my last post here for at least some time. It has become frustrating. Specifically, I'm frustrated with comments about how Americans are wilfully blind, rednecks, or plain stupid. Posts are singled out and left as "examples of stupid Americans." I've personally been described as a stupid American, well, okay, that's inaccurate, I've been described as a "thick American." People deny that there is any anti-Americanism and there is just sensitive arrogant Americans here. That's fine, perhaps they're correct. What I do know though, is that while I see comments about "stupid Americans" or "childish Americans" or "blind Americans" followed by a rush to state they don't mean all Americans, a quick scan doesn't reveal any comments about "stupid Canadians" or "stupid Norwegians" or "stupid Englishmen" etc. It seems that when someone who happens to be American says something stupid he is an example of "stupid Americans" where as there is not this broad categorization applied elsewhere.

I just feel like I should probably take a break for a while at least so I won't be responding to any further economic debates here, I just wanted to clarify real quick.

I wish everyone the best. Goodbye.