Bush - Impeached! Or Not?

Remove all ads!

If Bill Clintons wife, wants to be prez. Well it would be fun seeing her run. I am sure she has fans, who will vote for her. NOT ME! But fun to see the show.....

about((Rotku)) and his thoughts on the French resistance militarily....... Maybe in French history books, but thats not how the rest of the world saw it!

Dont get me wrong, I am sure some French people did fight back, and bravely. But as far as the French Army.....Well....Ya Right!

 

From back a bit:

Look here:

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,977853,00.html

 

(Laches) PLEASE! YA THAT’S RIGHT A MOBILE BALLON MAKER!

Anyway more OFFICAIL investigations this in America have proven, they ARE for DUEL USE purposes! Chemical being one of them.

The Mobile trucks can not be disputed by some liberals in the ANTI -Toney Blair factions. Even the U.N. say they are for DEUL purpose and they can make Chemicals.

I ahve seen the BBC, CNN, and other news paper like the Wall Street Journal. They point out by Experts that those trucks are for Duel use!

So the only Embarrassment is the news rag OBSERVER you got that from!

 

Agudo

Have you ever heard about MAKI (the french partisans, who were a real pain in the ass for the occupation forces) or De Gaulle's Free French?

Also, as far as french military performance in 1940 is concerned, the french military faced Germans when they were almost in the top of their power. There wasn't a second front to keep busy the majority of the german armored divisions, the continuous bombing of the german cities and factories had not started and Blitzkrieg was a totally new concept in warfare and nobody knew how to deal with it. Do you think that if Americans had faced Germans under the same terms, they would have a better performance than the French?

When the Americans faced Germans in 1944, things were very different. Wehrmacht had met its destiny in Russia (and the best german divisions were still fighting there), the British had learned their lessons from their defeats in France and in desert, Germany was under a continuus air bombing campaign and the Americans had 3 years to build up their forces for the invasion. Although, even under these terms, Germans would throw allies back to the sea, if they had not the total air superiority.

 

@Agudo

Are you talking about the duel that Hussein proposed between him and Bush? The labs were for that in some manner? Would they take ten strides within the lab, turn, then shoot? I'm just teasing -- duel vs. dual.

First, I'm not familiar with the Observer but it was carried by the Guardian which is a reputable source. Second, I try to read a lot of news and haven't seen any experts quoted beyond initial reports regarding the purpose of the labs; I particularly read the Washington Post about ever day and don't recall seeing it. Just to make sure though, I went to the sources you cited: CNN, BBC, and the Wall Street Journal and did a search on each site to see what I could find:

Drumroll please..... nothing. Oh, that's not really true I admit. Back in May the US released a report that they must be labs because they couldn't determine any other use for them. That's a pretty slip shod way of demonstrating they were weapons labs in my opinion. More recently, at the sources you cited, I found things such as these quotes:

From the most recent relevant CNN article:

From the most recent relevant BBC article:

The Wall Street Journal apparently requires subscription so no dice there. A similar search of the Washington Post revealed similar articles.

Basically, this is the story with the labs:

1. US finds them and says they may possibly be weapons labs. They say this and it's reported.

2. Preliminary tests prove to be "interesting." (that's a quote by the way from the BBC, pretty 'intersting' quote in how non-commital it is eh?)

3. A US report is released, that bears no author, and concludes they must be weapons labs because they can't figure out another use for them. (I suspect you saw these reports back in May.) The British are unwilling to commit at this point saying further testing is needed.

4. About a month goes by and there isn't much talk about these labs anymore. This is very surprising if they demonstrated some type of evidence don't ya think?

5. British officials state that the labs were not used for weapons.

6. Bush is quoted in June as saying that he knows we'll find proof, it was "common knowledge" Hussein had WMDs. This is weird because I thought the labs were this proof, weren't they?

So, the question for you is: if these labs are the proof, can you explain why Bush is making statements that we WILL find proof rather than we HAVE found proof? I'd also urge you to provide a source that after the initial testing,( and barring the one criticized unauthored report that admits to not finding any chemical or biological agents but insisting they must be weapons labs just because what else they could be?) that purports to demonstrate evidence of the labs being used for biological or chemical production.

By the way, the assertion is they were for artillery balloons - not kids balloons.

EDIT -- oh, and on topic, what dmc said way back. Nail meet head and stuff.

[ June 16, 2003, 09:16: Message edited by: Laches ]

 

@ Agudo AoL (<<- for the 3rd time now, THIS is how you address someone here)

Source, please? Like Laches, I've neither read or heard anything OFFICIAL confirming this, so if you're going to laugh at someone for disputing something you say, back it up with something other than the caps lock key and excessive smilies. (<<- Look...all you need is one to get your point across! )

They can have a thousand experts contend that these trucks "could" have a "dual-use," but no one as of yet can confirm whether they were used for such a purpose. My lawnmower has a "dual-use" as a weapon of terror, but that doesn't mean I mowed down my neighbors with it just because it's a possibility. I want proof, not possibilities - and so far, there is NO proof of WMD at all. I'm not saying there never were, because frankly at this point I have no idea. But you seem to think that concrete evidence has been found, and it simply hasn't. It's clear you love Bush and want to believe him, and I respect that I suppose. But nationalism isn't going to win you any arguements or credibility...least of all HERE. You site official sources as being mainstream television news media. But EVERY major news source throughout this war, from CNN to BBC to whoever has been regularly printing false leads and stories in an attempt to beat one another to the punch, so don't laugh at someone else's sources when yours are questionable at best.

I'll say again: no proof. Prove me wrong by showing me something official (IE Government or UN report, published/declassified document, etc.).

[ June 16, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

Agudo Archmage of Light wrote:

Just a sidenote. I guess in American terminology (which is the opposite to European terminology for political views) Blair would be an "ultra-liberal" himself.

oooh, I just have called a socialist liberal, I want to slap myself.

Tories on the other hand, are the right-wing party. So, Blair gets fire from the right-wing and his own party.

Here

[ June 16, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

((BOC))

a quote
*****************************************************************
Do you think that if Americans had faced Germans under the same terms, they would have a better performance than the French?
*****************************************************************

My answer is………….YES! If it was based on Sep 11 effects and because we would have gone in there, if we had a madman on border like the French did. Just Like after the Japs attacked us, thats when America got into the fight in WWll


((Laches)) my Goodman, even though I thank you, for telling me that I misspelled **Dual**. One should always use (spell-check) when pointing out others mistakes.

Lets take a look at yours ((Laches))
{Drum roll} is two words, and {Interesting} has two “T” in it. Also non-Committal has two “T” in it as well!!!!!!!
{Please see what you wrote below}
*************************************************************
Drumroll please..... nothing. Oh, that's not really true I admit. Back in May the US released a report that they must be labs because they couldn't determine any other use for them

2. Preliminary tests prove to be "interesting." (that's a quote by the way from the BBC, pretty 'intersting' quote in how non-commital it is eh?)
**************************************************************
But hay, I am sure you wont be petty, and do that anymore.

Now as far as everything else you said, from what I saw, it made clear that the Labs have not been proven wrong.

Also the reason why “President Bush” is saying they will find more weapons, is because they have some proof, like the (Mobile labs, Nerve toxin antidote, and Bio suits.)
But he believes Sadam took the time, to bury the Bio/Chemical Weapons, in a country like Iraq, that is the size of Texas. Or sadly shipped them out, and that is the more dangerous situation


Now for the fun part ((RABIT))

I was going for extra sarcasm, as far as the

Besides know sane person believes Sadam, who is on record for using weapons of mass destruction, on the Kurdish people of Iraq.Would have a "Balloon" truck to make targets for practice. He also is known to murder, anyone who did what we do now, that is use our freedom of speech

Lets go with your statement about BBC, CNN and other more reputable news source. I am not going to say they are perfect, but the (Observer) is more like a {National Enquirer} they may catch someone in bed, that they should not be sleeping with; or Elvis at a fast food place.

But I would not say the Observer or National Enquirer can be trusted when other more reputable agencies don’t agree with such ridicules statements.
As far as your lawnmower well, If you killed thousands of people before, like a modern day “Hitler” aka Sadam. Then I would look at your lawn mower funny also! ((Joke)) but my point is made about Sadam, not to be trusted.

Ok ((Yago)) your up.
I am sure Toney Blair is a socialist on domestic policies. But on international policies
He did the right thing. Now I am sure the conservatives in England are attacking him.
I never seen a politician not try to one up his rival, even he/she agree with their rival.

[ June 16, 2003, 19:28: Message edited by: Agudo Archmage of Light ]

 

My typos stand corrected, although some of the typos were wrongly pointed out (I forgot an 'e' in interesting not a second 't' etc.) The only reason I brought up the 'duel' vs. 'dual' is it is a common mistake that I see all the time here usually in the game forums where someone wants to 'duel' two weapons or is wondering who would win a 'dual.' No hard feelings.

Now, something is noticeably lacking from your latest retort however: any recent source. I went through the trouble to go to the sources you relied on earlier and quoted what I came up with earlier, which indicates the labs were either likely not used for biological weapons or at the least there is no real evidence they were.

Remember the old Wendy's commercials with the old ladies yelling "Where's the beef!" (am I dating myself?) Well, where's the beef!

 

Ok we both stand corrected, and normally people put the word in large print. DUEL/DUAL to give the hint.

Now as far as (hard feelings) well after two boxes of tissue paper I am ok now. No! Really! I am ok….”Sniff” …..People “Like” me….. and I don’t spend…”Sniff”. . to much time…. on Chat boards, than with real people………….OK maybe I do!

 

@ Agudo "I can't be bothered to post properly" Archmage of Light

I'm not trying to attack you, but...

First of all: Don't comment on anyone's spelling or grammer until yours less resembles a third grader's. And the name's "RABBIT."

Second: Is it so difficult to post properly? Look at everyone else's posts, take a cue. Read the forum rules on how to post if you have to. Yes, it is annoying and disrespectful to the rest of us.

Third:

This has nothing to do with what I asked you. You're right - Saddam was a bastard and everyone knows it. Whether or not Saddam was making balloons has nothing to do with the fact that no one has confirmed that the trucks found were ever used for the purpose of WMD manufacture, period. Once again: I want proof. If you're so convinced, then convince me.

Fourth:

My point about the news sources is that throughout the course of the war, I can think of 4 seperate times where several mainstream news media outlets have declared that the weapons were found, and were later either retracted or not followed up on (because it was a bad lead and there was nothing to follow up on).

This is wrong. These "experts" have said it COULD have a dual-use, but like I said - nothing conclusive. Once again - no proof. Owning a gun doesn't mean you shot 100 people, unless forensics determines that that was the gun that fired the bullets. If it's confirmed that your gun found in your house killed 100 people, THEN it's reasonable to believe you did it. It's called burden of proof. Please don't miss that point now for the second time.

If your point was that Saddam was not to be trusted, then it has nothing to do with what was discovered, and in fact in that respect makes Saddam look pretty good. If you read Laches point earlier, it has been "officially" confirmed (by a Coalition government official, I might add) that these trucks turned out to be exactly what Saddam's government claimed them to be. Could they use them to make WMD? Yes. Not terribly likely given the evidence at hand, but yes it's possible. It's also possible that I'm plotting to take over the entire state of Texas alone...with my lawnmower of doom. But not likely.

Now...please back up any further arguements on this subject with something other than "I'm sure" or "I think," or else I will have no choice but to believe you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I am sorry DEATH-RABBIT but you missed the point between me and ((Laches))
It ended in a joke, by me to show that I had “O” ZIP hard feelings!

We were talking about my one, and only spelling mistake….Or at least until the WORD POLICE find more…..the word was Duel/Dual on my part.

((Rabbits Quote))
*************************************************************
First of all: Don't comment on anyone's spelling or grammer until yours less resembles a third grader's. And the name's "RABBIT."
************************************************************

Um…. RABBIT you missed spelled GRAMMER its (AR) at the end. So even a third grader can make a mistake{RABBIT)

Anyway I am sure anyone with the name (Death Rabbit) has a lot of anger management classes to go to SOOOOOOOOOOOOO

lets not take what you say as believable ((Rabbit)) until you stop being the
(WORD POLICE)


((Now as far as your next quote))
*******************************************************************
It's also possible that I'm plotting to take over the entire state of Texas alone...with my lawnmower of doom. But not likely.
*******************************************************************
((Even though I like the Joke)) about the lawnmower, it does not change what Sadam was trying to do. That was to make BIO weapons, but thats if you dont use your third grade quote above! As a logical analogy on why he was not using those trucks or anything else to make weapons of mass-destruction.

Also I did read Laches post and its NOT OFFICIAL by any standard.

Coalition forces does not include every government person that’s in the Democratic party, or Republican. Be it American or England.

So Please stop saying its OFFICIAL, because its one faction opinion, who is try to get rid of Toney Bair. I also say that the info. comes from a Rag news paper he was quoting and not from more well known ones; like the Wall Street Journal or Tv, CNN, BBC that say that its been #100 proven wrong or Right.

As far as my sources I believe the American Scientists, Military and President Bush, over some smear campaign; by Liberals that want to replace Tony Blair in England.

[ June 16, 2003, 21:06: Message edited by: Agudo Archmage of Light ]

 

Alright - * groan * You missed pretty much every point I tried to get across to you, so I will no longer bother. Your points are unfounded and irrelevant. You rag on my use of the word "official," yet you cannot, after repeated requests, come up with anything of the support to back yourself up. If you have nothing of value to say, and are obviously too stupid to post properly or back up anything you say with any validity, DO NOT post here. I mean honestly - did anything sink in? At all?

Touche on the word "grammar." If you want to browse over my posts and pick out mistakes, feel free (as I assure you, they are very few). I'm not perfect. But if you honestly don't know how absolutely horrible your typing is, then I feel sorry for you.

I'm still waiting for you to answer ANY of my questions, particularly asking you to back up your statements, and it seems obvious that you can't. I'm done with you.

 

I was just editing my last post above yours ((Death Rabbit)) when you posted.
So if you missed that then fine.

((Quote from Rabbit))
*****************************************************************
If you have nothing of value to say, and are obviously too stupid to post properly or back up anything you say with any validity, DO NOT post here.
******************************************************************

Please DEATH RABBIT control your personal attacks, and try not to be so blinded, to what the American government is saying. Just because you don’t like Bush, they showed you the trucks, and yes you can find someone else, who might disagree with them.

But as far as completely proving it to you, we our all waiting to see if in the next twelve months they find more proof

But hay you’re the one who attacked me, I just used your (third grade) analogy. To point out how embarrassing it is for you, to say that others are (third grade) when you miss spell words yourself and grammar!

As far as my sources I believe the American Scientists, Military and President Bush, over some smear campaign; by Liberals that want to replace Tony Blair in England.

www.wsj.com www.un.org

www.loc.gov/
for more information of what I said above.

[ June 16, 2003, 23:56: Message edited by: Agudo Archmage of Light ]

 

Well, it's the Tories and/or the Lib/Dems who want to replace Tony Blair. Well, they wished they could, but I think Blair will be very stable for the time being. Much to the dismay of a big part of the Labour-voters, as far my understanding is. But that has nothing to do with the war, but with British domestics. The Tories are down and out, resp. don't have any appealing leadership, the lib/dems are in a marginal position, but maybe, maybe...

Well "smear campaign" and "liberals". The Tories would love to replace Blair. "Smear Campaign". It may sound strange, but in the UK, they got a parliament, which let's the Prime Minister sweat, when has to explain his policies to the MP's (own and other parties). One may call it a sideeffect of a Parlimentary Democracy.

(No, I did not use any spellcheck program)

 

Thats ok YAGO, RABBIT is the WORD and Grammar POLICE But I liked what you said about UK, way of doing things. I see what your saying.

 

Agundo

It's your opinion, I respect it but like it or not the U.S. army could not face germans in 1944 without total air superiority therefore it would be an easy prey in 1940 when it would have to deal with the whole Wehrmacht and without air superiority since Luftwaffe was powerful this time.

Anyway, this is totally of topic and really I don't want to continue this in this thread. If you want to continue this discussion open a new thread.

 

((BOC))

Well I admit that would be a fun topic, but for the sake of your mature stand on the boards……Thanks! …. I will say this……….

That France was going against a soupier force. the Germanys in wwll. Yes some could say, that those in control of France, did ignore the obvious build up of hostilities.

But I will humble myself, and say that any country would be hard pressed, in dealing with the Germanys. That Includes Americans!

Now to save the topic……… BUSH should NOT be Impeached

 

Ok first do you mind using the standard way of setting posts out.
1) address people @ then their name. Not ((name))
2)And please don't use so many ! and { and (. It gets very annoying and makes your posts even harder to read
3)Please could you use the quote thingy when posting, instead of using the *s
And if you want I can even give you an example of this:

First of all see how I showed there was a quote. And the second, do you know how hard the quote above was to read?
I'm sure there are many more things but I'm going to leave them for you to work out your self and save you any more embarisment (sp?).

I don't like telling other SP members what to do but i would seriously suggest you drop it! . Death Rabbit was very mature in not going on about your posts, but I can't help it sorry.

Now if you don't mind can we get back to the topic please.