How Fortunate For The Rulers That Men Don't Think

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Ah! Clarity and definition.
I don't disagree with anything you said that time.

Maybe I should revise my earlier sarcastic remark to reflect Morgoth's last statement.

"the people deserve the execution that is reserved for the individual."

In any case, I'm still a bit reserved about saying that cowering under the might of a military dictator is really, "widesread support" but I see what you mean.

 

It's all very well and good to be willing to die for political change, but you know, some people want to live, be with their families, and all that good stuff. I don't think those people are bad either -- if being politically active could get me killed, thus depriving my children of their father, or worse, get my children killed, I'm going to take what the dictator offers -- not because I derserve it, no one does, but There's no point in getting yourself killed in a fruitless endeavor.

 

Well, I'm not feeling very energetic or verbose today, but my opinion is that a great many of us really don't think a lot about stuff that we should (myself included). We unfortunately focis on our own lives and what seems important and we trust blindly in the government to do what's right for us. Then when the time comes that we realise something's wrong and needs to be changed, it's very difficult to rise up to that challenge and start using our brains to make a change.

Granted, this is not true for all, and I do not profess to say it's true of most people everywhere, I just have found it true of a lot of people I have met. Anyway, as I said, I'm not feeling very enegetic so unfortunately I didn't read the ENTIRE thread before posting so I apologise if I've gone

 

Look at the person who said "men don't think". (Very flattering to women and children, implying that we do, but whatever.) Adolf Hitler. Do you really want to believe anything Hitler believed? He had perhaps the most twisted outlook any human being has ever had, without even the excuse of being actually insane.

Do people think? Sure. Most people try to live their lives as best they can. In America, we face grinding debt, fear of our neighbors (and, increasingly, our families), insane amounts of overwork (those of us who are lucky get 2 weeks' vacation a year which most of us don't take) IF we can get full-time jobs, no guaranteed health care, a higher infant mortality rate than Cuba's, an administration that lies every time a leaf falls, and advertisements EVERYWHERE. Overload is well-nigh inevitable.

When you blame social problems on individuals "not-thinking", you are asking one question and answering another. You're asking: "Why do we have these problems, as a people, a country, a society?" and answering: "Individual people, one by one, are lazy ignoramuses." That doesn't make sense, and it'll just lead to more cynicism -- and laziness -- by people who feel superior.

 

Neriana I understand your frustration and this is what makes the point all the more valid, that there are really very few who take the idea of thinking any further, too engulfed by the illusion with which they surround themselves.

All of these things you have mentioned have very simple solutions in a country relatively spared from oppression, if people would only pause for an instant to fully contemplate the world around them.

You only have debt if you purchase things. You are only over-worked if you choose to bear an ever-increasing load at something which you do not value; You don't really need to do that amount of work, and if you worked at something you felt was truly worthwhile this stress would not be an issue, it wouldn't exist. You don't need to work for someone; just sustain yourself and spend your time on more beneficial pursuits. Why do you need guaranteed health-care? You need nothing guaranteed, if you trust in yourself and and take care of yourself, you will not become ill. If you do not empower the medical institutions which so oppose preventative measures, or the pharmaceutical companies, they would not have a monopoly - their power-base lies within you, withdraw your support and they are left dormant. The same applies to the governments and corporations -*You* give these people their illusion of dominance as long as you choose to play by their rules. Advertisements would be unnecessary if noone bought the products, and the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

Don't focus your mind on gloom and ideas of money and hollow society - these things are fleeting and insubstantial at best.

Let go of your desires and you will never know a moment that is not total happiness.

[ October 08, 2003, 18:20: Message edited by: Manus ]

 

People do think but, in my opinion, they just don't care if they are not personally affected. I guess here fits this quote by a german catholic priest, who was prosecuted by nazis : "When they came for the jews, I didn't care, I was not a jew. When they came for the gypsies, I didn't care, I was not a gypsy. When they came for the protestants, I didn't care, I was not a protestant. When they came for me, there was nobody left to protest".

Also, it's this that Romans used to say "bread and entertainment". Every regime (democratic, dictatorship etc) tries to cover the basic needs of its citizens/subjects and to provide them with some form of entertainment in order to keep them happy and satisfied and therefore make them not care about what is happening outside of their personal "microworld" (I don't know if this word makes sense in english).

 

I think you got things turned around Neriana. I think that everyone from Hitler to all that have posted in this thread quite agree that individuals are quite bright and hard to mislead. It is when we are talking groups we get into this thing with not thinking. If for example all the people of the US came to the same conclusion about the state of things that you have and did a conscious and somewhat united effort to change things nothing in this world could stop them. That is not very likely to happen though as is quite evident if one just look at the world. The only things that really tend to both unite and drive *people* to action are things that affect everyone in a very negative way, like the full scale slaughter commited by the Pol Pot regime or the people of France living in misery while a very small elite lived in immense luxuty. It takes extreme conditions to truly force people into motion, especially if the people in power have no intention of letting go.

@Depaara, you pointed out a difficult dilemma in your post. I think I would act in the same way as you describe but I do not know if it is the right way to act. Firstly there is the fact that dictatorial regimes arent overly concerned about the level of truth behind charges layed against someone but basically takes care of anyone that could in any way be even remotely suspected for anything. Furthermore there is the fact that we, with our inaction may spare our families for the time being but with the very same actions, or rather lack of action we doom our children to live through the same oppression. A very unpleasant dilemma.

Perhaps it isnt "People get the government they deserve" but instead "People get the government they work for" a small but in my eyes quite important difference.

 

It is a dilemma, and one that I'll personalize for you folks. I could be very politically active -- my society permits such, and the opportunites to read, study, write letters, join associations, parties, etc, are numerous. However, right now . . .

I am going through a brutal separation, I have bills up the wazoo to pay, I'm in bad shape medically, and I have 120 children to teach varying curricula to by the end of June. Oh, yes, my father's Alzheimer's is getting worse and I just got asked to teach a Sunday School class at my church. All of these things are more important to me than politics. I'm sure that the lives of peopole in other country's are similar -- I am not the only one with problems in life!

So maybe I don't think and let things like the GST, gun control, and lax legislation on crime go through. However, the things that are of most imortance to me are not merely material things, they are to a great degree spiritual and emotional. "Giving up my desires" will not make my life better, as I will still have responsibilities to fill that take most of my time.

 

I believe that "people" can and often do think. To separate them by saying, "Those who think are individuals" is missing the point. The problem is that the ultimate point of being human is thinking rationally. What separates us from the animals is our ability to reason.

Whenever actions are taken that do not support life and the continuation of creation, there is evil at work. This can be from someone not thinking or deliberately trying to destroy. In the end, Ayn Rand had it right when she said that either is simply one side of the same coin. Whenever a person fails to think, or goes against what he believes is right, then that person has committed a self-destructive act. Unfortunately, many people commit self-destructive acts every day. This is what Christians and Jews would call "Original Sin".

When it comes to politics, the problem is even worse because: 1. Popularity does not equal fitness for office. 2. Intelligence is not a requirement for anyone to run for office. 3. Many people can not determine the truth of candidates from the lies told about them. 4. Political parties want near-absolute obedience from their members.

As for the original question, let us remember that along with 6 million Jews and several hundred thousand Gypsies, Hitler also knocked off 4 million dissenters. That seems like a lot of people who were thinking to the point of getting into trouble.

 

Perhaps it should be: How Fortunate For The Rulers That Dead Men Don't Think.

Why is it that every damn warlord seems to slaughter gypsies!

 

Only some of you have touched on the subject that I originally intended. Men (This is from a bloody quote, don't go feminist on me) Don't Think. Plural, as in, many individuals. People don't think, they swallow what they are fed. We can see this in SO many examples, whether it is Stalin, Hitler or even Blair. George Orwell's book "Nineteen Eighty-Four" illustrated that the plebs do not think. They accept that big brother knows better. When they do think, they are reformed. That is the point I was attempting to make. People accept what is given them. Because if they don't, goverment systems themselves may collapse.

 

Ahh, is it such a dream that we may only hope for it with a wistful smile upon our lips?

I would give my life for a leader I thought worthy, as things stand, I might be nigh immortal.

 

No government lasts forever, no leader is without fault, regimes come and go but the people themselves always remain.

I do not believe that stupidity plays a role in our political choices. As a species we are defined by our intelligence. Rather, complacency, a sense of invulnerability, and political division are usually the key factors in the downfall of a free society. Tyrants are often never really known until they begin a program of oppression which is usually initially disguised as being for the good of all until it is too late. Deception is an all too common tactic in the political arena and even the government body as a whole does not realize the damage caused until the whole thing is brought down in ruin.