Discrimination?

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A friend of mine is a bit of a political punk. She is all about freedoms and tolerance. So, she had (among other things) a swastika with a big X through it on her backpack in electrical tape next to the words "teach tolerance, not hate." A teacher approached her for it, saying that it was inappropriate. My friend explained that it was an anti-Nazi symbol, but the teacher told her to take it off. There was bit of an arguement as my friend says many things like "It can also be a Buddhist symbol for long-life. Are you telling me that I can't have a symbol of my faith on my backpack? Do you tell people wearing crosses to take them off?" and "I'm making a point about teaching tolerance, why should I take it off?" The teacher was getting flustered, and made a comment about it being "discrimination against Nazis." What is that?

Did this teacher have justification to do this? Yes, my friend didn't have to have an 'X'ed out swastika on her backpack, but it's the agrument the teacher made that is the point.

 

Possibly the teacher was worried that if he/she did not say something to the student then the teacher would be viewed as neglecting his/her duties to keep the school a sterile and unconflicting place.

 

Well, your friends argument is pretty hollow. The Indian swastika, while a signifigant religious and occultist symbol is not actually a symbol of long life per se, and it is drawn differently to the nazi swastika, which is rotated on it's tip and inverted (I'm pretty sure the tails point in the opposite direction), which makes me think that your friend is not proclaiming her beliefs (just as well, seeing how this "religious symbol" has been crossed out!) so much as looking for a political argument.

Using your argumemnt, lets just assume that she used the symbol commonly reffered to as the star of david (another Indian and Oriental occult symbol signifying rupa-arupa, form and no-form, but that is beside the point, as it is commonly seen as a symbol of the Jewish faith), if this had been crossed out, I can see ample reasons for your teacher to protest, and, no doubt, your friend as well.

This aside, even though the nazi symbol IS NOT the true elemental swastika, but a symbol of a certain group of persons, just like the six-pointed star, then as Blackthorne has allready stated, how can one lay claim to preaching tolerance, while being openly intolerant. Tolerence is about accepting others, regardless of whether you happen to believe in their own beliefs or not. Why did your friend feel the need to protest against a dying, if not dead, political group? Has she encountered ethnic genocide at the hand of nazis recently, or is she just trying to gain attention?

The reaction that you tell us your friend presented in return, coupled with the initial action itself, leads me to assume that she is in fact somewhat intolerant and agressive. Should not a tolerant person accept that she has offended another, and at least apologise if not try to make amends? Challenging authority is one thing, bucking for a fight another thing alltogether different.

 

I'm somewhat of a political punk myself. I have an upside down American Flag in my room. I wear a T-shirt that says "**** White Supremacy" and I spike my hair and listen to The Unseen.

One thing that I have a problem with is that if the teacher is worried about offending a bunch of ****in skinheads, then why is she still working there? Nazism could (and should) be considered a cult and/or gang, and therefore be prohibited.

The Nazi Swastika is a very common German sign. Many militias and warlords used it as their sign in the first reich. Hitler just put it in a black circle surrounded by red (the Nazi flag in a nutshell).

I really think that your "friend" was in the right. Nazism should be fought at every possible opportunity.

 

People make a big mistake by trying to not discriminate everyone. You have to discriminate.

The nazi ideology is a faschist and racist ideology, claiming different values for races. They are agressive and dangerous. Carrying a swastika without the x is a criminal act in germany. Who has ever been to a concentration camp knows why. There are ideologies in conflict with the open and liberal societies our constitutions promote.
The teacher mixes up non-discrimination with indiference; perhaps coupled with the fear of a lawsuit by a nazi or his parents.

Freedom of speech is one thing. But you can also give the enemies of freedom too much of it. That was one of the things that killed the Weimar republic.

 

Discrimination against Nazis?

There was a case similar to that, I forget where, maybe California, where a Jew was sent home from school for wearing a star of David. It was considered a gang emblem.

I agree with Ragusa, discrimination is a pretty beat up word, it doesn't mean what its supposed to anymore. Setting one thing apart from another
is how you make decisions, its sort of inherint. Seeing the difference between two things doesn't neccesarily mean you want to stomp one out of existence (although in the case of the swastika I guess it was the case).

Your friend was caught in a catch 22, being intolerant about intolerance, and the teacher was then fascistic about tolerance.

 

I agree with Ragusa you have to discriminate just you must remember that there must be a solid reason for this and always with measure and reluctance. Nazis lost that chance when they commited these horrible acts during war.
BTW the swastika was originally a greek symbol of Hermes the god of roads among other things and symbolized the correct road, the true path. Hitler was an admirer of ancient Greek culture and his theories are a twisted example of these theories sadly.

 

Many cultures have independently created and used the Swastika long before the Nazis used it.

Your friend is a twerp, though -- speaking as a teacher, there are certain symbols, "x" over them or not, that are inappropriate for a school setting. Period. It is not authoritarian or fascist to ask people to conform to a certain set of rules. I am so sick of stupid little kids with chips on their shoulder thumbing their noses at authority for no good reason and then patting themselves on the back for "standing up for themselves and their rights" Fight the fight when there's a real fight to fight, shut the hell up when you're just feeding your ego. The legal repercussions for teachers who do not make every effort to make the school environment a place comfortable and appropriate for everyone are severe.

 

Nationalism is never a good thing. Too many people have it. My mom is basically a Nationalist (she's an American living in Canada) and no matter what I say, she'll blindly follow anyone that says "Land of the Free!".

I don't think that a Swastika with an X through it would be considered inappropriate. Of course, it depends on what grade this girl is in. If she's 13, it's different then if she's 17.

I would like to see teacher incouraging a social conscience, rather than being afraid someone might be offended.

 

Actually, speaking as a teacher, I'd love to see an educated social consciousness in my students. Many of their beliefs, however, end at the provocative patch or symbol they have drawn or sewed onto their clothes -- the actual depth of thought in some of these kids (or shallowness, to be more precise) is stunning. Many of them don't know very much of these symbols except for the fact that they know somewhere in their little minds that it gets a reaction. They don't have any goal beyond causing a problem. That sort of behaviour really gets my goat.

 

VERY good point.

Still, just because they don't know anything now doesn't mean it should be discouraged. If that patch is on their backpack and they don't know what it means, then eventually they'll want to find out what it means and that will lead to more.

The next time you see a kid with a anti-something patch or shirt, ask him whether or not he knows about Nicaragua or Panama. Those two are the most damning of all US screw-ups, so if he doesn't know what those wars were about, then he probably doesn't know what his shirt really means. (Unless is really obvious).

 

The Nazi system promoted hatred of races due to the fact that a person was of that race. That can not be tolerated. Having said that, I know for a fact that many people not only tolerate it but also believe it. If your friend was adamant about her stand she should have taken the patch off and then applied to the principal of the school to put it back on (or asked the teacher to accompany her to the principal).

The problem with the teacher insisting on the patch being removed comes down to sanitizing everything at the 'child' level. The Hitler Youth were not told that 11,000,000 people were being systematically tortured, poisoned, starved and murdered with their bodies being cremated in front of their relatives. This was so that the 'child' would not be traumatized. So much for protecting the sensibilities of children.

 

I'm with RCoutme on this as much as that annoys me. Your friend should have gone to the principle and pleaded her case to a higher authority. As for being intolerant about intolerance lol, I know SO many people like that. All of Westbubble is like that. Well, almost. You get a few odd ones here and there who are either actually passive about it or are a bit fed up with the complete "tolerance is best" attitude of the people around them. For instance I know that ANYONE who wore a swastika in my school would get an immediate suspension if not worse.

So it is possible that the teacher in question didn't catch on to the X part right away and wanted the kid to take off the symbol before getting in trouble (as Lord Keldin Depaara pointed out, some of these kids are too -- stupid for lack of a better word -- to recognize the full significance of these symbols) and then when your friend explained the X the teacher may have gotten a bit flustered and seen your friend's reaction as a defiance to her authority. That would be my guess anyways. And in that case, the teacher simply made a mistake and didn't want to admit and only dug herself into a screwed up situation.

As for the Swastika with an X through it, I don't personally see anything at all wrong with that. I mean the only people who would really be offended would be Nazis and I'm all about being intolerant to intolerance people. That's fun to say just so you know. As already pointed out, the Nazis were a facist regime led by a man who preached that certain humans were superior to others and that all lessor races should be eliminated. And I do think there needs to be an intolerance to that kind of thing.

And for everyone else, as to Valkyie's friend pointing out that her symbol could be Buddhist etc. She was merely protesting the fact that her teacher was making her take away her Xed out Swastika. And I agree with that. Crosses are allowed (and should be) and so should anti-Nazi symbols. And if your friend was really adament about it and even her principle made a big deal about taking it off then she could the case to courts and make an even bigger issue out of it. That would show the teacher

 

You know, I thought this was a little bit strange. I'm kind of vaguely distubed by it.

I was watching the news the other morning, and they had one of the Iraqi governing council guys up there. And he was talking about setting up a museum for Saddam Hussein and that one really massive prison out west of Baghdad.

So no one ever forgets.

That kind of thinking is a wisdom I didn't really expect them to be capable of. Even the ex-prisoners are supporting the idea. And from the sound of it, I don't expect it to be the sympathy and respect generating side like the Holocaust museums. It's barbaric, but HEY! It's home.

I still think the Dixie flag needs to be flown across all the Confederate states.

 

I doubt there are any nazis left to be offended so odds are that the kid was just trying to show her morality off to her friends. I agree though that we should strive not to offend people, it seems pointless to rehash old arguments for the sake of impressing others, it's only going to cause more conflict.

 

There are lots of Nazi's left or at least some of their kind left. There are many groups that promote White Supremacy and Hitler's ideas. Here's a website that looks at a few online groups.

http://www.ekran.no/html/nazismexposed/

PS: Stormfront.org is a massive hate site. Their forum is HUGE! Check it out.