About love

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Well, it seems that people have a lot to say about love but we haven't had a debate specifically on it so I thought I'd put it out on the board.

What is love? Do you love? Can you love?

 

*cough* Allow me to be the first to retort before we are flooded by denials, by certain members who's views are allready widely known.

Travelling to distant past we glimpse sight of a forum post on these very boards entitled "Riddle Time!" if we glance at the sixth page we shall know doubt be drawn to this charming illustration of opposition, by one of our most faithful discouragers. But Alack! there seems to be some discrepency! Could our wandering minstrel of nihilistic pessimism, that stalwart bastion of cold rebuttle, that wakizashi-weilding heroine of the emotionless void, have betrayed her darkest secrets for all to harken unto, to see her bear her innermost passions in a flitting bout of self-destruction?

Ahh, allow me to reveal myself before you are torn asunder by axious anticpation, as you search the very morasses of your souls for this intrepid betrayl!

Ahh what this? who would have uttered such a thought nigh fore a single day had past! Who could have responded thusly, pre-empting any other attempt at a solution to such a diabolical turn of phrase!?

Could it be that chivalrous Chevalier? The seeker of passion both high and low, of it's peaks and very pits, our love stricken Faragon? The ever dichotomous bladesman, one who both refutes such folly, yet falls deepest of all for those chaste and pure, the alluring Grace, that love-befounded Shura? NAY! Twas none other than the Sorcerer's own dark crusader! The very one championing the fight for release from such an awful binding, yet heavenly becoming fate!

Who is it who so burns with desire? who so thirsts for what she most of all repells, knowing that only then shall her wanting never be fulfilled, yet so wants to quench herself from it's alluring pull?

Hmm?

Thrust yourself into the bowels of Love o' drunken one! Drunken with LOVE I say! WE KNOW the truth of your inner plight, we know your questing is the very reason you so protest! I thinketh ye protesteth too much fair one! She has only to release her frail facade and cry Yes! I Love! oh How I seek it! O how I relish it! Yes!

But nay.

She hides, and denies, and cries uselessly against us, when we only speak of what lies within her own beating heart!

You only decieve yourself, we shall but wait for that day, but with knowing smiles thrust upon our quirking lips we shall wait.

Ahh! it is too much to bear! I feel I must retire, for the swoon of prophecy has taken it's awful, fearful toll upon me. Do not hate me young one, I but speak what is not spoken, yet is shared in hearts by all! Aye! even by your very own!

 

*appalause*

Comngratulations.

Also, my coinbdoolences to you before certain "someone" decides to flambé you.

My personal opinion, like I stated in the other thread, is that love itself is, as an idea, fleeting and intangible and so forth and so forth. Best one can hope for is "friends with benefits", a commitment on its own.

Or words to that effect anyway.

 

Love can be for many things, not just another person. You can have love for your pet dog, you could love taking walks along the beach, you might love icecream. There are many different types of love and they must exsist. Everyone can love and everyone should.

 

Arabwel, Aye, I too think that love as an idea is fleeting and intangible, and this is because most people try to call many things love that are in fact, not.

It is not the physical attraction to another, it is not the emotional attachment or dependence that is evoked, it is not a psychological obsession and it is not sexual gratification.

The Notion of "friends with benefits" suggests a very materialistic, personal-orientated view of the world. I see no difference between one who beleives such a statement to one who murders a man for his shoes. Both are driven only by their own thoughts of physical comfort and material attainment. An act is only an expression of a thought.

I however do not think you truly believe what you say. Far be it for me to suggest such a thing excepting the fact that it is an extremely common view spoken, if not truly held, by young people the world over. Unfortunately most do not grow through this stage for many years. It is made worse by the common occurence of these self same folk to develop such strong feelings for others in such a small amount of time, and to call such things love. In a teenager it is understandable. In a fool appearing on Jerry Springer it is sorrowful. This is why I speak so.

I do understand why you say such a thing, and have such strong convictions of its non-existence, having said those things myself when I was closer to your age.

I know this so far has probably seemed offensive but I do not speak with anger, I only rebuke what you say so strongly for I fear that it is a dangerous route to travel upon, beleive me when I say I know almost exactly where you are coming from in saying such a thing.

Love in fact does not involve any person but you. It is a connection between yourself and the universe, it is the blossoming of wisdom, compassion, understanding. It is neither physical, mental, or emotional, but is felt in all three ways because it super-cedes every one, and is felt, created, observed within each. It is something truer to what you really are. It is intelligent light, it is living fire, it is the stuff of spirit. It is sorrow and it is joy, it is none of these things because it is all of them.

It is a direct experience of the universe, an experiential form of life itself, it is inner bliss.

I do not expect you to accept or understand this, I only ask that you consider love as exactly what you said. Intangible. It can not be quantitatively measured divided or applied. It is the intrinsic knowing of something's beauty and worth, and it is the understanding of that thing within itself, for it is in fact, merely a reflection of yourself, all things are but another part of each other. It can be shared with everything, even something you hate you will in time also love.

Is it any wonder that this develops when you feel attraction and compassion towards someone, when you have such a level of understanding for them, when you are in constant contact with that person, and all that they emanate? Once the baser forms unite, and a symbiosis of your own mental, physical, and emotional perceptions are formed, focused, there is little else for you to progress towards. But this is far from the limitation of the thing. I have tried vainly thrice to explain what needs to occur, but could not form the words correctly. People look from within without, then push the without within. You must go from without within then from within expand without.

With a loved one the barriers between such have been ceased, no form of lower understanding is required, it is a higher understanding, beyond acceptance, to an active appreciation, regardless of all else.

Love is this, by denying it you deny yourself.

 

I despise Platon. Love is a physical reaction caused by physical attraction and is best remedied by close phyisical presence resulting in kinetic and thermal energy. Otherwise, It would just be too cold.

 

I disagree. I see that happening in cases when you just pick someon up for a quick rioll in the hay, but the whole point of "friends with benefits" is that you are with someone you know, have an attachment to, trust... and won't be bringing any messy emotions into play.

Although, what you say is probably true.... I can imagine it being true. (Right now is a bad time for me to talk about love...) I know that to be able to feel something like that has to be amazing.... I can remember, yes, fleeting glimpses of such things in dreams and then waking up to the bitter world. I remember feeling such things, if to a lesser degree (so-called fascination...) and the bitter feeling when it was worthless in the end...

Excuse me. I'll just go sulk in the corner.

Edit: found more to say. Now, I can admit that "love" does exist, the kind of love one has for a parent or for a sibling or a good friend, or one's dog or for writing... and yet, by my "definition" that is not love. I merely have no better word for it.

But to be clearer, let's just say that my belief in ROMANTIC love is... akin to a snowball's chances in Hell.

 

Love, what it should be, how it is described in books and poems, how it appears in our dreams, is something far greater than anything else. It is life, purpose, the greatest bliss.

But in reality, love is there to justify cheating. To justify one's lack of ability to control one's own hormones and reason. A synonym to infatuation, mental weakness, and idiocy. It is a word used to counter another word: responsibility. Too often, love is but a lie that is used by millions and millions of people to make their lives easier.

Because ultimately love is not physical, nor emotional. Because it can be onesided or exist between two different people. Because it can remain hidden and never be seen. And because when you know it is there, it is not, or vice versa. Because all of this, all love can be is a matter of opinion and hope. Nothing more, nothing less. Those who believe in it, can love. Those who do not, cannot. Still, sometimes believing in a lie can make you happy by clouding your eyes from the rather cruel truth. Unfortunately not all have that choice.

Speaking of "love" is essentially the same as speaking of "god" or afterlife. In every respect.

 

Love doesn't exist. Or if it exists, it's crap and a way for people to play idiots.

I don't love anything nor will ever.

And no, I can't love.

But as I have a normal sexdrive (or will be having one in few years) I definitely have to sleep with somebody. What in itself doesn't involve love, because that's is an idiocy.

So, put me into the Foradasthar camp.

*takes out lightsaber and murders Manus*

BTW, it's a katana, not a wakizashi.

/me rolleyes

 

Eze I suspect you are going to be the neighbourhood cat-lady when you grow up.

 

Well, here I have to agree with both Foradsthar and Arabwel in the obvious lack, and blatant misuse of the word love in so many romantic situations. It is the sad truth, that it is often used only as Yago has described.

But I still assert that love can exist between a couple, and often does to some extent, but is clouded by, as you have all pointed out, infatuation, emotional clouds, and undisciplined hormones and desires.

Love is on terms with responcibility, it is the embodiment for your responcibilty for everything around you. It saddens me profusely that people will abuse such a notion.

Foradsther you are right in what else you say as well. Many people are happier deluding themselves with lies than to admit the truth. It is like speaking of god, in that many do not believe in it because they are misinformed, and the shocking majority of those who say they do, believe only in a horrid twisted lie, personalised to suit their own needs.

Arabwel, I hope you find your peace soon, this world can be bitter, bitter.

I have left most things behind me, as a consequence, those I knew have left me behind. But I understand now that they must, this is their part to play, as mine is a part I choose to play, for we can truly only find fault in the actions of ourselves, while trying to show others a better way.

I have little faith left for this place, its stark beauty admist so much pain, and indeed, my hope, is what keeps me sane with the knowledge that things are truly wonderful if you will appreciate them for what they are, that in the end all will be well. Some may say I delude myself, but I know what I felt before was the illusion. Ignorance can be bliss. Sometimes I wish that I still slept blindly, content with the little knowledge I actually contained and happy to amuse myself in any manner I saw fit.

It can be a lonely path, but experience has shown me that what you truly need shall be given to you in its time. Any time I begin to doubt myself, something happens, I meet another who is the same, and I am reassured. Knowing what I do now, I would not go back, even if I could.

That moment of clarity when you truly awake is love, like the sun shining on every aspect of yourself, the light emanating from inside you, and warming your every, your every all. It is a difficult thing to put in words, but I have never known better moments in my life.

Eze, you do not fool any of us (and wakizashi sounds better with weilding). I forgive you for my murder, that too is required by love, which for me has long left the realm of which you speak.

 

I believe in love -- it's not about sex, though sex can be an expression of love. It's about wanting to be with a person and caring for them no matter what they do. It's about helping that person through their trials just because you want to see them happy, not because you want something in return. It's about being willing to make personal sacrifices so their lives can be better.

There's a million things that make up love. But it does exist, and all the cynics in the world can't change it's existence.

 

Ah.. love! It's the greatest thing I ever learned (...someone finish this quote)

Love is the base of a perfect world and the highest or even better, only requirement of a relation.

Eze: IIRC, you're 13 years old and already you create a wall of pessimism around your life that won't let love inside. If you'd be a bit more open, less egoistic you might experience love and I bet you'd like it.

No offense ment, of course!

 

Love is a great thing, what life is all about, though when it goes bad it's incredibly painful. Losing someone you love - even a pet - can be devastating. But I would rather spend my time loving and deal with the inevitable pain when it comes than be a total chickensh*t and push the world away. That's not what life is about. The good in love FAR outweighs the bad.

@ Eze

*pats Eze's head* There there, child. You'll grow out of that eventually. Until then, continue trying to convince the world you have a heart of stone. Someone may believe you eventually. And, ironically enough, he may just love you for it.

 

Love is giving up almost every dream you've ever had to devote your life & your every action to someone else, in the hope that you'll gain their approval. Love is doing the afore mentioned for 15 years only to find out that, that person could care less (about you) and has decided that she no longer loves you.

 

See, what I am talking about? You can see the people screwed because they thought that love is true. :/

DR:And how could a guy love me, because I have a heart of stone? My response to a guy is 'Sod off' and a knee in the privates if he doesn't take the hint. ´

Greenlion: *hugs* Just start enjoying your life without her and you'll realize that you don't care finally.

Manus: I am not denying myself, I am just saying that love isn't worth it, even if it does exist.

Erebus: Animals are annoying. I am gonna be the sod-off person, when I grow up.

Nuhn: Realism. And egoism is good. It helps you survive without any emotional scars. Better than being open and getting exploited.

I have said it on the religion, abortion and homosexuality issues and I will say it here too.

I WILL NOT BUDGE. Clear?

Love is crap, what screws your life.

 

Love is a choice. It is an action of self, rooted in a spirit of sacrifice and giving. It is not a phenomona, an entity, a force of nature, an evil spirit, a good feeling, lust, desire, a spring day, friendship, companionship or any of the other elusive intangibles that you associate with it. One can not be through with love unless they are through with themself. Love isn't something that happens to you or comes to you, it is something that originates within you, that you do for yourself. You will never find it if you look for it any further away than within your own soul.

 

@ Eze:

Oohh, add a whip and high heel boots, and hurt me, baby!

 

Thank you splunge for dropping the level of this thread below the waistline. I am sure that given the feelings that Eze has expressed, she will be thrilled by your response.

 

*Shura gets a nagging suspicion that he is being slowly edged out as the resident katana-wielding maniac*

Sigh. The tides come and go, eh. Prouda you, girl.

*Pats Eze's head and gives her more lightsaber batteries before going off to the psycho-killer retirement home*

Now, regarding 'love'
I am sure it exists. I've seen it have too many profound effects on those around me. It is a foreign concept to me, however. I cannot love. I can only favor. For eg, the pretty girl that addresses me courteously will get at least an equally courteous treatment from me. The smelly bum who yells at me will get a sharp cutting instrument up one of his bodily orifices.

Perhaps it's because I have psychotic tendencis and empathic deficiencies.

Still, all the best to those that can love. With the capacity for greater joy comes the potential for greater hurt, I guess.

In conclusion: it exists, surely. Not for me, but I'm more than content with my books, writing and video games.

Have an excellent time, lovers!