Human, humane, humanity... the same or the greatest lie that ever was

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So… here’s a question? Are you a human? Can you tell me off the top of your head what humanity means and what it stands for? Can you tell me it what it means to be humane? This question seems to bug me a lot nowadays all because I’ve grown up a lot and I’ve become a little bit wiser. But the question still stands… what does it mean to be human?

Is it our inheritance that we receive once we are born or is it a realization that one achieves as one grows older. Or is it just a simple classification system that conveniently puts all beings that are able to adapt and alter its environment into one group? If that is the case, some of the monkeys out there should be called human and maybe some of the insects too? Being human therefore should rather be classified as a state of mind but if that is so, why is it that when I look at people all I see is envy, hate, hypocrisy, loathing and a list of other attributes that is contrary to what a human should be.

We all talk about humanity and when we watch the news at night with the terrible killing we think, that’s its wrong and inhumane. What about the guy on the street corner that you walk past everyday who looks so miserable that he has given up on life, the only thought on his mind, some food to last him till the next day so that the cycle can be repeated. Is that selective amnesia on our part or inhumane? Sure you might say, people like that are only after money to get their next fix or the next bottle of alcohol. These are stereotypes that everybody seems to have adopted but here’s the thing. People only see what they want to see and here what they want to hear.

When last have you given of yourself to another person for the simple reason that it felt right, was the right thing to do and for the pure joy that it gave you? If you are thinking about haven given money you’re on the wrong track as money is but an extension of yourself. When I say give, I mean no complications, no recompensation required but with the knowledge that you did something good and that because of that you’ve made someone else’s life better. When last have you done that and felt righteous and pure.

So… are we human or are we the dregs of a culture that is slowly beginning to rot but still trying to hold on to a concept that makes us feel good about ourselves everyday of our lives or, are we the worst hypocrites that ever lived

 

Yesterday. And I only hope I gave enough.

 

The term “humane” is a word we invented to encompass generosity, selflessness, kindness, gentleness, etc. etc. etc. In other words, everything we see as the “good” side of human beings. The problem is that, ironically, “humane” and “human” are not the same thing. Human beings as a race are not humane; we just like to think we are. All you need to do is look at the wrongs in the world to see that, as a race, we are anything but humane.

So perhaps “humanity” is something we can only strive for rather than achieve.

 

First of all, humans ARE. Forget all your concepts of good and evil, as they only exits in your head. Things happen, live with it! There is no universal rule or evaluation system that tells you whether certain events or actions are good or bad. They just are. YOU might percieve them bad, but sometimes it just depends on your point of view.

Emotions such as envy and hate aren't necessarily bad when you look at the big picture. Without these emotion, I think mankind would still live in caves and hit each other in the head with big clubs. However, as mentioned above, the emotions we describe as part of humanity like love and compassion are shown by apes and some other mammals. But calling them humans just because of this seems rather silly.

I for one, do not consider myself human. I am me! Thats is the single most correct answer I can give. The human race was defined some 200 years ago, and since evolution has changed us since, I will no longer claim to be human. And as I'm no expert on biology, don't flame me if it was onle 150 years ago they found out about this.

As for feeling pity on behalf of other people, well thats part of humanity. But pity is in the end a worthless feeling. Your pity helps none in itself. It does not feed any starving children in Africa, neither will it end any civil wars and ethnical cleanings anywere.

I'm not saying that these people should not be helped though. I've already done my part and seen my share of poverty and ruined life. But it bring no solution to anyone if I let this bring my own life down.

Hmmm, seems I'm getting a bit of topic here. As for the questions made above, then yes, I do extend my help to people who needs is. However, these people only need my help, not my pity!

 

This goes out to splunge

The term humane is a derivative of the word human and implies that we have the capacity and even the obligation to act humane. Every person has the capacity, but whether he chooses to practice humanity is up to him. I am not saying that there is a difference between the three concepts, only that to be a human obligates a person to act in a humane manner.

This one's for Grovflab

I am not debating whether humans are good or bad. In my opinion, the concept depends on the perception of the person. Also, why do you think that calling apes non-human is silly? The logic is inescapable. If an ape can act like a man, think like a man, and do like a man, is he therefore not a man, or similarly human? Similarly, a man that acts like an ape, and looks like an ape, and thinks like an ape, is he not an ape? This point is debatable; therefore we should rather say that the capacity to act in a certain manner defines a human. Humanity is a concept that brings together a number of criteria, which distinguishes us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Also, if you are not human then what are you?

The concept of pity is also arguable; there is no pity involved. It’s all about being human, and what the term implies. I agree that people don’t need your pity, but maybe they also don’t want your pity. Maybe all that they want is your help. And… since when was there a limit to the amount of help that can be given? Give all the help you can, odds are that your account in heaven is gaining interest.

[ November 20, 2003, 16:45: Message edited by: Human ]

 

No. I'd say if a man acts and thinks like an ape he is a man that thinks and acts like an ape. It doesn't make him an ape. Likewise, if a man clears his mind and sits day and night in one place unmoving and unthinking that doesn't make him a rock. He is still a man.

Human to me means someone of the genus Homo and the species H.sapiens. A dead human, or comatose human, or human fetus, or a 12 year old sugar-high boy, are all still human despite their varying behavior.

Humane was used interchangeably with human for a couple of centuries and then it became a distinct word.

I'm not sure how the etymology of a word in any way implies an obligation - even if I can appreciate the underlying sentiment.

Some philosopher distinguish the concept of human and person - maybe that would help. Yoda certainly isn't a human. He might be thought to have an obligation to act humanely though by virtue of being a person. Your connection is underinclusive and probably overinclusive as well.

 

I would tend to agree with this - humane does not nessecitate what we are currently, but what we should be, the potential for which we can become- while there is potential for us to move the other way, that act limits the potential for growth in another direction. We may always fall, but it is increasingly harder to climb.

I think there is no selfless act. Selflessness itself is of benefit to you, whether you realize it or not, and is what we should strive for, but we can never achieve it. Some benefit can always be gained from something.

As to the other topic, it is true that we cannot gauge the right or wrongness of an act, or of a situation removed from ourselves, but this does not mean that we should not do our best. Don't go out of your way to intefere, but improve yourself, and help whoever crosses your path, and I think you are being the best you can be- if you offer your help to those you meet, and give it freely to those who ask it of you, then you are doing all that you can, all that you should. To give more, is to burden yourself with the errors of those whom you attempt to help, but do not. Do not limit yourself, your giving only to men and women, give freely to everything about you.

To my mind, we are not of the genus called human, this is not what we are, we are Manus. To err is human, this is true, to be human is to have such a dual potentiality. To be humane is to forgive, to understand, to offer sumpathy and feel empathy. It may not always be right, but it is the most we can do with our limited faculties. Humanity is all of us who are in the same situation. Those of us who are human, and have not yet realized we are Manus.

 

Encarta online defines humane as:
1. compassionate: showing the better aspects of the human character, especially kindness and compassion
2. involving minimal pain: without inflicting any more pain than is necessary
3. with an emphasis on liberal values: with an emphasis on respect for other people’s views

But humans invented the word. My point is that we took the word “human”, which as a race has good and bad aspects, and by adding the letter “e”, somehow got rid of all the bad parts. It’s like we are trying to hide from the negatives by reworking the word “human”, that we think the essence of being human is being compassionate, etc. Wrong. The essence of being human is, well, being human.

I have to disagree with that. To be human obligates you to nothing. To be human only means that you can be expected to act human – good and bad. Certainly, it would be nice if everyone acted in a humane manner, but as Grovflab said, what is humane depends in part on your perspective.

As is often the case, you’ve lost me. What do you mean, “we are Manus”? Encarta defines manus as “the wrist and hand of humans or the carpus and forefoot of other vertebrates”; I assume that’s not what you mean. And if you mean we are all like you, then just let me say that I don't take kindly to being insulted like that

 

To Grovflab,

I know you really didn't want a biology lesson, but I feel the need to teach you something, if for nothing else than to help you better understand the concept of evolution. Yes, this is somewhat but I get back on point at the end.

First, yes evolution is a theory championed by Charles Darwin, some 155 years ago, by observing the flora and fauna of the Galapagos Islands in a trip he made there on the "Beagle".

However, Darwin never gave a definition of human there. Moreover, to state that you are different from humans of 150 years ago - at least from an evolutionary standpoint - is a gross overstatement. Evolution takes place on the order of millions of years, and so the incremental changes from one generation to the next - or even a few hundred generations to the next - are insignificant to the point of being nearly negligble. The first modern humans are thought to have originated on the western coast of Africa, some 140,000 years ago. In fact, from a genetic and evolutionary standpoint, we are hardly different than them - much less of people who lived just a couple of centuries ago. Becoming more advanced by inventing things does not change our DNA. We are hardly any different (genetically) now than we were 140,000 years ago, other than the fact that there are a heck of a lot more of us around now.

Now on to topic, humans are animals possessing 23 pairs of chromosomes (certain genetic anomolies withstanding). The is technically no such animal classified as an "ape" - they are a group of animals - but let's say for arguments sake you are talking about a chimpanzee - those primates most closely related from a genetic standpoint to humans. (Note - humans didn't evolve from apes. Humans and apes both evolved from a common primate ancestor.) Despite having 97% similar DNA, chimpanzees and humans cannot produce viable offspring together. A major reason for this is because chimps have 24 pair of chromosomes. So a chimp is a chimp, and a human is a human.

Regardless of what we call ourselves, just because the etymology of human and humane have the same base word, does not imply an obligation for the two to be similar. It's an ideal, not a mandate.

If you were looking for a more philisophical answer, sorry I cannot provide one. Us damnable scientists are so single-minded in the ways at times.

By the way - here's a startling fact about evolution. Chimps and humans share 97% of the same DNA. Conversely, chimps and gorillas, and humans and gorillas share only 96% of the same DNA. Therefore, genetically, a chimp is closer to a human, than it is to a gorilla.

EDIT: Splunge (above) makes the same point I was trying to and he does it much more succinctly. I wasn't necessarily trying to ride his coat-tails on that - his did his post as I was writing mine.

 

You know, we are Manus

No, really.

I am of course, not reffering to the fact that I am, like the rest of you, a possessor of Godhood who has not yet attained it, a fraction of the infinite, and therefore also infintie, and that you are all, therefore, merely extensions of myself, reflections of differeing aspects of the being which I too, am but a pale shade of, no, no, not at all.

Manus or Manas is (and this may be the wrong term, as I am no biologist) a genus of species of which we are only a part. It is the order which contains both our higher and lower aspects, from what we have been, to what we have become, to what we will in time be- no, I am not talking about monkeys, think inwards, and you will find that it is also without- they are the same.

We are of course, as yet, far from perfect.

I am trying really hard to lose you, so I'm sorry if you're not following me. I sincerly hope you do not understand me, and can truly see what I'm saying. If I have not properly misconstrued the incorrect misinterpretations I shall be sorely shamed.

I have a strong distaste for explaining myself, but I do sincerely try when asked. If I get too specific however, I find that I lose touch with the language between us, and I am hesitant to enter too deeply, as it then crosses the line into personal (and therefore questionable) belief. I hope I have been of help.

Edit: It seems we have come to an agreement as to the discrepency between the meanings of human and humane. A philologist might be able to tell you more, but I think those who posted before me have provided answer enough. But I think this is Human's point (the topic author), that we as humans, are often far from humane, far from the ideal which we think we should be, not that we are obliged to do so, but that it is right to do so.

Have faith, Human, do what best you can - there are others who think the same as you I'm sure; but do not fall into the trap of hating those who hate, this will solve nothing, and will only tear you up inside even more.

That culture may be rotting, just as those before it did, but this does not mean that another cannot replace it. Whether this will be for better or worse only time can tell, and only we can decide.

As individuals. It is our strength of solidarity that gives strength to all of humanity- just as it is our own personal weaknesses which leads to the rotting you describe, the over-mind of an inept culture, of a falling civilisation.

From death can only come life - there is nowhere else to go.

[ November 20, 2003, 18:59: Message edited by: Manus ]

 

Aldeth, you are of course right in that. However there is a tiny small difference, and it is this difference I focused on in regard of this discussion.

But to get on topic, as I've said, there are no good or evil, only actions. We humans are as we are, and the faster we get to terms with this, the better. Warfare, strife and ambition is part of our nature, I don't want to sound like a certian Austrian dictator, but to some extend, this is part of evolution, here evolution not neccessarily only about the biological aspect of life.

Take nations. To some extend, they are single beings, who has to survive. Yes, the world would be a nicer place to be without war and deslike, but things simply be like that. Today everyone think that all things can be solved by diplomacy, and that we should further our societies by trade and so on. However, trade is just another kind of warfare. You take something from someone else to further your own needs. It might not be as bloody as war, but the effects on the inflicted parts can be just severe.

Hmmm, seems I'm getting a bit carried away here. What my point is, is that a lot of people confuse the concepts of god and evil with reality. Things happend and often without any clear purpose.

And yes, an ape is stil an ape, no matter how it behaves. But this has already been said much better.

Oh, and regarding the 'heavenly account' mentioned above: When can we have a proper discussion without anyone bringing some sort religious mumble jumble into this? Respect to all religions, but some of us don't believe in all that. However, if there was something behind it, I would still live my life the way I do. If some deity thinks he has the authority to evaluate me for the afterlife, then so be it.

 

Bravo, Grovflab. The bringing up of religion was a door opening up that allowed me to speak on evolution. The two can be polar opposites, but they inevitably seem to be drawn together in conversations. Anyway, I'm glad to hear you understand we aren't any different from people of 150 years ago. I thought you were under the false impression that we were genetically different because of the massive amounts of technelogical advancements of the past 150 years.

 

Human...I am afraid that all I truly feel when I read your question is that you are letting your own belief crowd your judgement. In fact, I would truly argue the thought that you know exactly how wrong you are in your assumptions about humanity. After all, your topic wasn't even really a question - it was a hypothesis, at best.

You reach out in your hopeful discussion about humanity and what it is to be human, playing devil's advocate very well...but, really, to me, at least, it seems more as if you're hoping that someone will prove you wrong; that human beings are a flawed race is a given, unencumbered by creed or altruistic tendencies.

Please excuse me. I went off the topic, didn't I? Well, Human, allow me to touch your reached-out hand:

Firstly, what makes us human is neither our ability to adapt, nor a strangely transcendent lineage in society. What makes us human is the fact that we are conscious; we are aware that we are! And the fact that we able to sit here and argue about this very topic merely exemplifies my point.

Secondly, you ask about giving selflessly...

... to you I say this: nothing in the above quote truly touches selflessness, because as soon as your motivation is not spontaneous, it means that your reason had to be thought through. Thus, that feeling of righteousness and purity is just the reward you seek.

The very fact that that reward is not material makes it worse, as you thrive to be good by doing the right thing, all you accomplish is showing us all that you need it (your righteoussness and goodness) to accept yourself.

It should be said here as well that there are almost no acts that are truly selfless nor done with no regard for self (even one who seeks no recognition or praise is proud in that he is good without public awareness). Humans are sadly selfish.

Know that I said this not to attack your beliefs and actions, but to enlighten you about your possible self.

 

Interesting that two people from south africa join the same day and post in the same thread...
[edit "Anywhere But here" was previously south africa in En's profile ]

I guess it is up to the humanity of Tal to allow double accounts to this human(more likely a third more familiar member is behind ). It would be humane to not confuse other people with multiple accounts.

 

First of all i would like to say that i am overwhelmed at the response that my topic has aroused.

To Manus…

Thank you for the support and for understanding what was said beneath the words and for understanding where I wanted to take this argument. I totally agree with your argument and totally support it .

As to the biology lesson, I myself am a scientist and a biologist who does in fact understand the concept of evolution. What you however are referring to is the morphological state that exists between these different species as well as the different phenotypes and genotypes that have arisen as a result of divergent evolution (sorry for the biology lesson). This is not what I was trying to bring across and I am sorry if this is the impression that came across.

What I am speaking about is a concept. A concept that binds no matter the differences, a concept that separates us from the rest, not based on science but a philosophy and a way of life. This concept is not an exclusive club but a joining of minds and ideas for the benefit of all.

Yes I agree its an ideal but isn’t it an ideal that everyone can live up to?

As to the religion part, that was me trying to be sarcastic, not a point on which to base my argument. If anybody took offence, again I am sorry!

As to my belief crowding my judgement, what belief? I’m expressing an idea, a very controversial idea given, but nonetheless, a relevant one for this day and age.

As to this quote, I am looking for someone to prove me wrong so that I may know that what I am speaking about is a lot of crap and if such, revert back to the careless non-believer that I was when life was good and my conscious was a thing long forgotten in childhood.

There’s an old saying… “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you”. Couldn’t that be an ideal to live by?

I guess the point I’m trying to bring up is this. Most people on this planet have power. Power over others and power over themselves. This power is either attained through the course of one’s life or through birth. Of course when I speak of this power I mean those who are blessed with great leadership, vast intellect, enormous willpower and capacity to change the world because their actions have far-reaching consequences. This power brings with it responsibility. Every human has power and the responsibility to act humane!

Of course there is the argument that they did not ask for this power. Well tough you have it. Your actions have consequences and a person not practising this power for the simple reason that he/she did not ask for this power still proves that that action has consequences. Fence-sitters think that they are neutral but their desire not to act is in itself an abuse of this power which they will use subconciously for the rest of their lives.

 

I admit I haven't really read anything past the first paragraph or so (this AoDA stuff usually isn't my thang), but I remember very much the book I had to read in tenth grade: Brave New World. The final conversation between Mond and John is very enlightening, and perhaps hints at something about the importance of being human.

 

Human... about your "wanting to be proved wrong," yes, I know exactly what you mean. But that doesn't at all change my opinions about this entire topic or how much worth I think it has.

Let me disclose something of my own experience: the more you question, the less easily-content you'll be. The fact is, questions beget questions, and few of the answers are ever sufficient.

And as for your ideal about humanity, it's just that, as you've already admitted. So I don't think that it had much real meaning when you spoke in an, " Is this or that the way things really are?" You should've said right from the start, "Well, wouldn't it be lovely if things were like this? I think everybody should do this."

And, oh, by the way, Rainman...I mean Nobleman, it actualy is quite possible for more than one person from the same country to sign up on this site. Incredible, eh?!

PS. I have now changed my location again...just in case you were wondering.

 

yes it is. The same day, the same thread and the same part of the world. Incredible, to say the least. But go on. I enjoy your show. Its kinda like a theatre performance. And for free. And interesting.

 

I'd like to disassociate myself with the human race permanently. Know where the nearest Alien Adoption Agency is?

/sarcasm mode