Why that particular religion?

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I"ve been a christian since i can remember my family use to go to church, but they've stoped as of late, i just usualy read the bible from time to time. Whats wrong about churches nowadays is that there to worried about making money, insted of spreading the faith. ;*(

Heres an interesting post i found at another forum ^^ hope you all injoy!

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new Christian students to stand and.....

Professor: You are a Christian, aren`t you, son?

Student : Yes, sir.

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student : Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student : Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn`t. How is this God good then? Hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can`t answer, can you? Let`s start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student :Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student : No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student : From...God...

Prof: That`s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn`t it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don`t they?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student : No , sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I`m afraid I haven`t.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn`t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?


Prof: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student : No sir. There isn`t.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don`t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can`t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn`t darkness?

Student : You`re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it`s called darkness, isn`t it? In reality, darkness isn`t. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn`t you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can`t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor`s brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor`s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you`ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

 

SARS evolved from an "animal" disease into a human disease in the course of 4 months.

But in the end, faith means nothing.

 

Does God exist? As far as the generally accepted Christian view of God goes, I don't think so. Some would argue, however, that there is a 'divine essence' in all living things.

There is another viewpoint which I don't believe has been considered yet: that of the magician.

The magician seeks to become one with God, that is the ultimate aim of his studies. What is he seeking to become one with? He is seeking to adjust his perception so he is in control of more than just his physical - astral projection is a fair example of what he can do, but it isn't the final goal. The magician seeks to ensure his perception is taken as far as it will go, so he can reach God\Understanding\Peace\Enlightenment.

Some don't believe in God, but instead believe in states of consciousness, the relationships between the physical\subtle\conscious\unconscious.

Does faith mean nothing? It can inspiring, it can be crushing, it can be beautiful, it can be cruel. The main problem with it is that it can't be proven, otherwise it would cease to be faith.

 

magician? lol ;S what you talking about. I never thought ppl would take games to the point were they actually thought they could be one of the chars... seriously "magician" what you talking about? lol

o and next time look up the definition of Evolution before you post something, Evolution= the process of unfolding, growing, or developing, by slow stages. It says nothing about death, or decay lol ;S and another thing ppl that don't think faith exsist, propably don't have a religion, becouse you've got to have faith really to belive in anything right? o and all look up the def, for faith just so you don't get that one wrong to Faith= Confidence in or dependence on a person (i.e., God)

 

My father, who died when I was 10, was an atheist scientist. Although I didn't get to spend much of my life with him he did have a great influence over me. Analytical thought and healthy sceptism where two things that he taught me. He also never introduced me to any kind of religion.

My spiritual feelings began when he died. They say that most atheist people start to believe in god when they realize they are dying. I don't know if this is true because my father never even told me he was dying let alone discuss the matter of death with me. I was introduced to the reality of death fast and without warning. A ten year old mind has to learn how to cope with trauma somehow and for me it was in hazy concepts of god and magic and spirits. So proceeded my teenage years and early twenties.

It wasn't until I met my husband and experienced a few unexplainable things that I began to believe in the Virgin De Guadalupe. Just before we were to be married my husband found out that he had to leave the country. (Immigration stuff) Everything looked sad and hopeless but that same day he told me, a woman came into the place I work to frame two pictures. One was Jesus Christ and the other was the Virgin De Guadalupe. I commented on her picture and she went out to her car and brought in another copy of the poster to give to me. It was amazing. The Virgin De Guadalupe came to me and my husband when we most needed her. It was like she was telling us that everything was going to be ok.

Following our marriage my husband and I had to be separated for six months while we waited for the immigration process to proceed. At that time I was alone and I remembered one night having a horrible nightmare in which small evil creature were crawling through my windows and climbing down the string of the light to get at me. It was one of those dreams that are so terrifying because everything else seems so real. Just when the evil creatures were about to get at me a woman walked into my room and crawled into my bed to sleep with me. All of the evil things disappeared and I was able to rest without fear. For years I've deciphered my dreams. I am very aware of the psychological cues and self made symbols of my dream state. This dream was different from my regular dreams and I believe it was the Virgin De Guadalupe who was protecting me from something very bad while my husband was far away.

 

Are we talking 'bout Faith or Religion here? Faith is a very personal thing that no one should dare to disrespect in others.

Religion, well, it's a different story. It's not something you are free to choose. It's not like an association or society you may join or leave at a whim - well, actually you may do it but this step would be nothing short of superficial. Even a self-proclaimed atheist is still religious. This is because religion is mainly about culture. You can't shake off hundreds of years of cultural imprinting in the course of a few years. If you're part of the western culture, than you're a christ, no matter what.

Religion is not just about piety, faith, and devotion. It is the basis for all our habits and practices. It is the cradle for our way of thinking. It has been around for thousands of years and shaped our sociological development.

You may opt for Buddhism instead of Islam or for Judaism instead of Christianity - you'll essentially be what you were before. Not that this is bad in any way.

BTW, I'm roman catholic.

 

Dradeel, I have checked the dictionary, and what comes up is:

Evolution : A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

It doesn't mention anything about speed stages, and following the accepted idea of evolution, death has everything to do with it.(I haven't mentioned anything about decay (lol ;S, ) so where did you get that?)

Faith : Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

I am an atheist, or agnotist, but that doesn't matter, I can still have faith, I have faith in evolution, I have faith in this world.

Faith doesn't matter, because it makes no difference, because you know what the greatest enemy of the truth is? No not lies, but conviction.

Edit:

Well, a part in the bible (Acts 8:5-23) actually mentions a sorcerer, so it seems Fillipus has played to much BG2 rofl
Magicians also exist in the Wiccan religion.

[ August 05, 2004, 12:25: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

thats not "more complex, nor is it a better form" Morgoth.. just admit your wrong lol. Also Religion>Faith

 

Okay so here's a friend of mine who'd like to react to some things. I don't exactly know what he has to say, but I proably react to it anyway.
Here comes...

so morgoth you see, i saw your post and i want to say to you that evoluation doesn't exist in anyway there is only de-generation. it was scientificly proofed to be true.

i heard you were dutch so here's a link where you can read about the book this proofed theory is in.

http://www.degeneratie.nl/

 

Yes, I agree that the more complex the organism is(especially humans), the more backward it's evolution will go, because it's reproduction is more prone to errors, but it is still evolution.. (although the definition I gave says "more complex or better form." it also says "usually" )..

Mankind and complex mammals will develop backwards, while less developed animals will become more complex, and eventually go backwards again.

 

That's why exchanging it with degeneratie-theorie would be a leap forward... in some way ? You're different, not because there's evolution, just because your degenerated.

Always remember, Nazi's had faith. http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/belt.htm

[ August 06, 2004, 18:30: Message edited by: Iago ]

 

Contrary to other peoples' stories, I was raised a mormon, then I changed direction so dramatically I almost got whiplash as I moved on to being a pagan. This is the religion I still follow, and as to why, simply because I agree with everything the Wiccan rules set out, and I FEEL right as one. Having been brought up in such a restrictive religion I suppose it is almost logical to veer towards such an open religion where there are so few rules and regulations other than those you set for yourself through your own conscience.

 

Well, for me, the path to where I now stand was a lonbg and rocky one.

I was raised, although very loosely, as a Christian. Of the Evangelist-Lutherian variety, to be presice. But we never went to church, not really, and the only significantly religious thing I recall is reciting a prayer every night.

I used to believe in God.

Then, when I was 8 or so, I got my hands on the Bible. Pitting that against the stacks and stacks of scientific magazines I had read by that time (and no, not a typo that one...) I started to waver.

The result was that by the time I turned 10 I was an atheist.

I separated officially fromnm the church when I turbned 15, the legal age in which one can do so here in Finland. By that time, I had already gone througfh several "phases" when i tried to figure out if i believed in anything at all.

Fast-forward a few years. Then, one day, I made a very foolish comment, wondering if there was such a thing as Zen Satanism.

Well, there wasn't. But the idea intrigued me, and I somehow managed to wrangle all of my multiple beliefs and lack ofs into something that actuasllyh resembled... zen satanism.

Sometims, methinks, all you need is a name to pin into what you believe in.

Or words to that effct anyway.

 

I was originally raised as a pastoral Quaker, attending services with my mom at the nearby town. My dad didn't practice any religion, and when they divorced I lived with my mom, so a lot of her beliefs got imprinted on me. However, her beliefs, and subsequently my beliefs didn't agree totally with the church we attended. I did have faith in God, but I didn't agree with the manner the church chose to expound it.
Eventually I became largely agnostic, not sure what to believe about God, the bible, and everything else. However, my belief structure for ethics and morals remained largely unchanged. At this point, I was doing very poorly in school, at my Junior High, and eventually ended up going to Scattergood, a Quaker high school. Here is where I became what I am today, whis is a non-pastoral Quaker. The difference may be subtle, but to me it was all the difference there is.
Now I don't practice by attending an actual meeting(church) but do attend the services offered by the school. My mom still attends the pastoral church, but I would prefer to go to the non-pastoral one in town. This all probably seems really weird and mostly non-intelligible, so I'll try to explain. The fundamentals of Quakerism, in my own eyes, are:
Peace, not harming another human being nor interfering in their path to truth.
Tolerance, allowing others their own beliefs, whatever those may be, if they feel that is their path to truth.
Truth, (This is the most difficult) never telling a falsehood.
And the most important, The light of God in everyone. This is a belief that everyone has a piece of God within them, their conscience for instance. From this stems everything, and the way to truth (for me) is inward reflection, attempting to listen to myself. What I like most about this is that it is not a rigid set of beliefs, except for the light in everyone, and that one is the only one that is essential. All the others are subgroups from that one.
Now, my problem with the pastoral church was that there was a pastor, teaching beliefs, and teaching the bible. I don't (and didn't) feel that the bible is necessary, and thus, I became non-pastoral.

I have no idea if that made any sense, but I hope it did.

 

I was raised a Roman Catholic. Due to circumstances I do not care to describe here, I left while still in high school, and never looked back.

 

Agnostic. Too many religions to choose from. Almost every damn god says something along the lines of "Worship me and me only otherwise you'll get major smackdowns when you die." so to avoid these devine smackdowns I won't worship any god out of fear of worshiping the wrong one or worshiping the right one in the wrong way.

If there is some 'greater power' out there I am sorry for not knowing what it is, who it is or how I should go about worshiping it. Almost every god claims to be a 'just' god and so if I am punished for not worshiping that god then that god is obviously not just for I am a creation of the society I was brought up in.

Frankly I'm going to get on with my life and apologise to whoever the boss is in death if it comes to that. I've seen no evidence from any religion, bar the book every one seems to have.

 

@Morgoth

quote:
"I am an atheist, or agnotist"

A lot of people on this page refer to themselves as "atheist OR agnotist (the corect term is agnosticist)" What I am about to argue about is the fact that ATHEISM and AGNOSTICISM is NOT the same thing and they are NOT similar!

The Correct Definition of ATHEISM:
Philosophical denial of the existence of God or any supernatural or spiritual being. The first Christians were called atheists because they denied Roman religions, but the term is now used to indicate the denial of Christian theism. In the 19th century Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietszche and Sigmund Freud all accommodated some form of atheism into their respective philosophical creeds. In the 20th century many individuals advocate atheism.

The Correct Definition of AGNOSTICISM:
Philosophical viewpoint acording to which it is impossible either to demonstrate or refute the existence of a Supreme Being or ultimate cause on the basis of available evidence. It was particularly associated with the rationalism of Thomas Huxley and is used as a basis for the rejection of both Christianity AND Atheism.

So please try and realise the difference between the two and if you say you are both then try and pick sides because it's definetly not the same thing.

I, for example am an Agnosticist and NOT an Atheist.

PS. Definitions taken out of the book "Encylopedia of World History" introduction by Patrick K. O'Brien.

[ August 25, 2004, 01:40: Message edited by: Kelvon ]

 

Kelvon,

You are correct in your definitions. And I agree that I too am agnosticist rather than atheist. I hadn't realized there was significant confusion of the two terms. Also, to warn you, you just opened the door for chev. We've had topics like this before, and if he sees your post, he'll be all over it. Not that I'm condemning that, or saying it's a bad thing, just be forewarned.

 

The thing about Agnosticism is that it doesn’t say anything about what you actually believe. I consider myself to be an Agnostic, but all that really means is that I accept that we can’t prove or disprove the existence of a greater power; it says nothing about whether I believe in a god or not, or whether I even care one way or the other. So to me, I feel I need to elaborate, in that I am agnostic, with one or more of the following additional traits:

1. I don’t believe in a greater power, which makes me an agnostic with underlying atheism.
2. I do believe in a greater power, which makes me an agnostic with underlying religious faith.
3. I have no idea, and struggle with it, which makes me a confused agnostic.
4. I have no idea, and don’t care, which means I just live my life as I see fit, and don’t worry about it.

Personally, I accept the possibility of a greater power, but I reject the idea of a God who watches over us and who we are supposed to worship, so I guess it’s a combination of #1 and #2. But ultimately I don’t really worry about it much, so it’s actually #4.

 

Splunge - you're my hero. I like the sound of your religion. It sums up the meaning in my life perfectly. I will fanatically follow your religion of relative apathy.