POLL: Gun Ownership

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I'm european, work in the army and have a total of 5 guns. A shotgun and a rifle at home, and a pistol, a machinepistol and an automatic rifle at work.

 

I am an european; I do not own any guns at the moment, but I foresee severl in my fuuture, reasons being "other" and I will not be detailing why... but I did grow up in a house with approximately a dozen hunting rifles/shotguns.

 

Why the hell would you even want a gun in your house? Christ.

It's the very idea that this is acceptable that causes a development of a 'gun culture'.

 

I voted "do not have gun and do not intend to get one".

However I did grow up in a household that had guns. Shotguns, 22's and 25's. These guns were used for hunting and the hunting was done for food. I was taught how to shoot and handle a gun. I was not allowed to point even my cap gun at another person. I also owned a BB gun. BB gun's can be dangerous. People have been injured by them and even killed.

I have strong feelings about the ownership and use of guns by the average person.

This how I feel and I am not directing this at anyone here.

1) Hunting with modern rifles is not a sport.
2) Keeping a gun in the house is dangerous to everyone but the criminal.

When a child, my paternal grandfather killed a friend with an 'unloaded' gun. He did not intend to do it. They were playing with the gun.

If you must have a gun in the house make sure it is locked up.

 

Suppose it'd depend on the bow and arrow--I imagine the bodkin heads fired from longbows that could punch through steel plate could probably take down a bear or moose. Still, point conceded.

 

wow lets all just let our goverments protect us

 

I am truly amazed. There are people who base their position on guns mainly on a fictional movie ( Bowling ), and a lot of others who have had no experience and done no research into gun ownership, handling, care, or shooting.

First off, the statement that a scoped rifle makes anything easier to it. If optics were that great, don't you think the military would put them on every rifle? They have severe limitations, and require more focus and practice to shoot accurately than iron sights. I HATE scopes, namely because they are finicky and amplify any mistakes, just as they amplify the target. Out to 100 yards, I am just a good a shot with iron sights as with a scope, better if we are talking about I high powered scope, because I can find my target instantly with iron sights, and sometimes just finding your target with a high powered scope is a trick (kind of like finding a specific star with a telescope, without using the little aiming scope on the side). Additionally, it is not like you see on TV, where the crosshairs and the target are both in focus. The cross hairs are in focus a few inches from you face, and the target is several hundred yards down range. You have to focus on the crosshairs and still get them lined up with something vital on a blurry target. There are new optics that use holograms that eliminate this, but they are expensive, and as far as I know, not yet widely used in hunting. Also, most scopes don't adjust of bullet drop based on distance, so you still have to guess the range and the trajectory of the bullet and aim accordingly. My grandfather told me a story about when he and my father used to go deer hunting. My grandfather took 3 shots at a deer with his scoped rifle, and missed 3 times (well one went though an ear, and another took off a point of the deer's antlers), my dad didn't want to shoot, because he thought it was a doe, and they didn't have a doe tag. My grandfather's gun was empty at that point, and he yelled at my dad to shoot because my grandfather thought he had wounded the deer. My dad took one shot with his iron-sighted rifle, at a moving target that was 250 yards away, and dropped the deer (turned out to be a buck). My grandfather couldn't believe it, and claimed luck, so they went to the range the next week, and at 300 yards my dad kept all his shots in the rings. My grandfather outshot him with the scope, but it was from a rest with no pressure. Scopes do not = easier shooting.

Now for the safety part, time and time again I here this claim that if you have a gun that is locked, it doesn't do you any good anyway, another issue. DoskoSport Gun Guard Pistol Safes
or for even faster access: Inprint Pistol Vault

I agree whole-heartedly about keeping guns locked. I would never allow my children to be in a position where my negligence left them in danger. I also fully support those of you who choose not to own a gun. It is a heavy responsibility that requires a significant investment in time and money. If you can't afford to purchase a quality firearm, and the ammo and possibly range time to practice with it regularly (monthly at least), or do not have the determination to be able to know that you would be able to kill in intruder coming into your home, then you have no business with a personal defensive weapon.

Buy the way, the baseball bat idea is nice, right up to the point where Bubba, who just finished 5 years of full time bodybuilding at the local penitentiary, takes it away from you and beats you to death with it. Guns always have been and always will be a great equalizer.

 

My gun experience is right from what I learned about using them in the army and from using them in the army.

I have to say, guns are fun.

The sporting aspect is one I really understand and I found rifle shooting for precision be truly enjoyable, even with a beast like the G3. Weird enough, the weapon I shot best and most precise with was the heavy mashine gun MG3 and as I see it I'm unlikely to ever repeat that sort of sporting in my private life

I can imagine owning a gun for self protection, when I'd live in a remote, rural place, even though that's from a statistical point of view probably where I'm least likely to become victim of a crime.

A shotgun for hunting or trap or skeet shooting and a pistol or a revolver self-defense, or a low magazine capacity automatic or bolt-action rifle for hunting or sporting - fine with me, but beyond that it stops to make sense.

What I do not understand about the US gun rules is that iirc per legal definition 'small arms' only stop short of 20mm calibre (and need a mount and weigh in at at least 50 pounds, small indeed).

As an example just take .50 cal rifles. A .50 cal rifle is an anti tank rifle, the round was developed as an anti-tank rifle round, that for a private citizen serves no useful purpose short of having fun - if you use it for hunting the destructive power of the bullet will deprive you of a trophy anyway, so you could as well use an RPG or a mortar. For home defense ... ... just imagine a brave self defender maneuvering a 25 pound rifle of 4 feet length through his house to blow an intruder to tiny little bits, and possibly the neighbour sleeping in the next wooden house as well ...

As much fun shooting an anti-tank rifle might be, there is a point in not allowing private citizens to own RPGs and Stinger missiles too ... despite that you can buy .50 cal rifles in a couple of states anyway, for a rockbottom price of some 800 bucks.

That is to say that IMO the pro-rifle lobby clings to the second amendment beyond reason.

Generally gun ownership is fine with me, I just see that there must be a common sense limit to this right. What is common sense is to be defined and I think I made up a good sketch of what I think is common sense.

My differentiation might seem like arbitrary because it isn't written in the second amendment, and it probably is - but that you are considered a grownup with 18 or 21 is just as arbitrary. Where in the constitution it sais that you are only allowed to drive a car when you're 16?

And so I really don't care, because a 200 year law - that certainly didn't foresee the increase in destructive power and firepower modern small arms offer to an individual person - is IMO a very poor basis to argue for no limit on weapon types or calibres.

I'm fully aware that in America gun ownersip is primarily an emotional issue, insofar viewpoints and criteria like mine are almost beside the point.

Only a few weeks ago I heared one guy on a US radioshow babbling like in fever that gun control in Germany made possible the holocaust (what made him refer to Clinton as a Hitler - of course ). That is of course utter nonsense, but try to reason with someone like him ... ... it's absolutely futile.

Thanks to zealous crackpots like him, for whom gun ownership has a quasi religious status, the sorry US state of affairs on guns is not going to change anytime soon.

[ April 18, 2005, 15:11: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

I am an American. I do not own a gun. I do not have any intention of buying a gun. I will however defend my fellow Americans rights to bear arms. The second amendment seems pretty straight-forward to me. The people I know who own guns are very responsible and derive great pleasure out of shooting them.

 

Most people don't actually know the full second amedment. It is, and I quote:

This was written in 1787, not long after the American Revolution. It was thought then that the British had a plan to re-invade America. So the citizens drilled with muskets and other firearms to be prepared for when the invasion would happen.

But here is something that Charlton Heston doesn't want you to know. The British re-invasion plan has been cancelled!

 

Yes, but there is our northern neighbor to fear, remember we have never won a war with Canada!

Seriously, the agreements as to what was intended by that clause have been debated to the point of being meaningless. The US is still a nation of open land for the most part, and we value the right to defend ourselves. That doesn't mean that you get your own personal nuke, but is also doesn't mean that you are limited to a baseball bat. Somewhere in the middle there is a happy medium. Personally, I have to agree with Ragusa, people really don't need a 50 cal, those things are hell on helicopters, and there is already proof that terrorists were exporting them from the US to Palestine and Afghanistan. Only a matter of time before one is used here for a bad purpose.

I really don't feel that I need an M16 or Uzi for my personal protection. That said, I have no issue with AR15s, or any other semi-auto version of main battle rifles or sub-machine guns. I don't believe that the general populace has need of ammo designed specifically to defeat body armor. If you need any of these things, MOVE!

I do believe in reasonable firepower. The 10 round magazine limit was . I don't think that civilians really need 30 rounds either. 20 seems like a good number to me, as the largest flush fitting magazine for a pistol that I am aware of is 18 rounds, and common AR15/M16 mags are 20 rounders.

I am sure that will open that gates to a drum magazine of flames so...

{flame suit on}

 

20 rounds? Flamesuit? You should already know that at least I disagree with you on your numbers, so why the flamesuit?

I get the feeling you try to be dramatic

PS: As for the terrorism risk from heavy sniper rifles especially, that can well be domestic. Just read Voting From the Rooftops

 

Vote: Not American, would never get a gun.

I mentioned in an other thread that the number of guns over here is ten times as high as in the US (per capita) and that people I know have died in gun related accidents and suicide.

But I do understand the use of guns in hunting or in sports and think it's perfectly acceptable. I would rather eat an animal that has lived a free natural life in the wild and not in some 'beef-factory'. On the other hand I don't think anyone needs a gun in their home and I would be very happy with a law that outlawed guns in homes, not holding my breath waiting for it to happen though.

 

Former american. Hate guns.
Note that it was my experience training in unarmed combat that taught me to hate guns. If I'm right or wrong that's my loss, but I never found guns to be a good thing to have in my house.
I grew up in a house with a shotgun and an rifle. The rifle was an old-school bolt-action type rifle that we used to shoot soda bottles and such.
Personally, I always thought that if someone had a handgun and they were threatening to shoot me they can just have whatever they came for.
If they have a handgun and want to threaten my friends or family, I'll defend them with my life.
I've never been shot before, but personally I can't see it happening. Even less so in Australia.
Back in the US I had friends who had been shot, but carrying a handgun never helped them.

 

Non-American, will never have a gun.
I don't agree with hunting for sport, and I wouldn't know what to do with anything hunted for food. I don't need it for protection.
I found out this weekend that my brother (who still lives at home) has had a shot-gun & license since my step-father died. The gun is kept locked in the safe unless he's using it. He uses it to try and keep the rabbit population down. Seems a complete waste of time to me, the rabbit population must run into 1000's, yet he'll only bag a couple a week - maximum. Of course if the foxes hadn't been hunted they'd be able to keep the population down.

 

american pro gunner...id suggest everone reads the boston gun bible.....it opened my eyes...i was fifmly against guns....even whene i was n the army.now i a couple of rifles, pistols and alot of other items.....im a recreational blacksmith/weaponsmith...and a firm believer that politicians prefer stupid unarmed peasants to informed well armed civilians....

 

Oh dear, Mordeith. Are you seriously saying we should own guns so that we can be in a better position to challenge the government!? I'm afraid I do not agree with that at all. Are you saying that the government will be nicer to you because you have a gun?

 

You can never be too careful...The King of England could tax us at any moment!!!

 

@ Harbourboy - I suspect that is exactly what Mordeith is trying to say. It pretty much echos the whole rationale as to why the right to bear arms was included in the U.S.A.'s constitution.

 

Oh man. We must be so oppressed here in NZ because we don't keep guns in our houses. How could I have been so blind? I'd better go and get myself a rifle right now before I become any more downtrodden.