Sickening...

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Louis Theroux is a British journalist who makes weird/controversial documentaries. Try watching this one about an American family (surprise, surprise...) who are just obsessed with homosexuality. The Phelps. I found it really tough watching this as it honestly made me feel sick to the stomach.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Gnarff, NOG and any others who think like you.. this is honestly how I picture you in real life, and I challenge you to show me how you are not like these 'people'...

Saddening that the human race can be as disgusting and horrible as this. What they are doing to their children is disgraceful brainwashing. I feel really strongly about stuff like this, I can't stand to see such things.

They are clearly in need of help, and I hope they get it before a lunatic with a different opinion takes the law into his own hands...

Theroux is amazing. Clearly horrified, and somewhat confused, you can only admire how he keeps his cool when faced with lunatics such as this spouting such hatred.

 

yeah, that'd be the most hated family in America, something Liberals and Conservatives can actually agree upon. I remember hearing about them and getting s outraged that I turned off the TV and went to bed, hoping to be able forget about them protesting at a funeral of a man that died in war. I truly wanted to kill them at that point.
As a disabled marine nothing hurts more than to see that sort of behavior from the people the military is there to protect. The men and women of our military give their lives for this country, to protect us (regardless of what our president does) from those that would see us destroyed and the thanks they get is the protesting of their funeral. I won't say what I'd like to do to those people, but believe that every Marine, and probably every serviceman that has seen that footage feels the same way.

 

Gnarff and NOG have nothing to prove. I've never once seem either of them suggest that "Fags should die" or advocate making it illegal to be gay. While I am strongly opposed to their stances on gay marriage, adoption, etc., their opinions stem from (in my opinion, horribly misguided) compassion and (again in my opinion) some degree of ignorance...not hate. This is one of those issues on which all reasonable people stand united.

 

Wiki's entry on the Westboro Baptist Church:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

and their own website:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/

First time I entered their website I thought it was crass satire.

 

Sorry Barmy, but this is the most arrogant thing I've heard in quite a while. Why would you demand that someone justify themselves to you?

 

I don't remember the name of the group, but there is a biker gang that now travels to military funerals to keep these creeps away from the families.

I agree, they are probably the most hated family in the country. Without a doubt they are one thing that the liberals and conservatives agree on.

In my opinion it is only a matter of time before the IRS revokes their status as a church and puts them in prison for tax evasion.

Barmy, you have nothing to fear. Other than the people you saw in the video, there may not be any others like them on this side of the pond.

 

They sound a lot like the KKK to be honest with you.

 

They're harmless... I found the video quite funny really, not sickening. I don't really find them offensive, they're just a dumb cult of loons ffs, and they aren't the first. Im pretty sure that Fred guy takes it up the ass, he has that look about him.

[ April 03, 2007, 03:07: Message edited by: Sarevok• ]

 

I think a line from the third video sums it up fairly well...

"Before I joined this Church, I was a genius."

 

They protest at funerals of many public figures, not just fallen service members. They protested when the American Boychoir sang in Kansas City. They threatened to protest at a wedding I was involved with because the bride had been divorced (both bride and groom were public figures).

They are quite distasteful and sometimes actively disruptive. I don't think anyone considers them in any way typical of American Christians. They are their own brand of fanatical nut.

 

I couldn't watch the videos because I'm on Dialup, and it would take forever to get a couple seconds of footage. From the sounds of it I should be complaining about the insults levied against me.

Such hatred of Christians who actually speak for what you believe, you must be gay. Prove me wrong! Does that sound stupid? No less intelligent than your quick labelling of us.

They are extremists. They take something noble (Christianity in this case) and leave out the noble elements (like love, the concept of the forgiveness of sins). What they forget is that a true Christian has more important things to do than actively persecute and disrupt the lives of these people. Preach the doctrine, yes, but after that, I've got enough on my plate getting myself inline with God's will...

Sounds like I could use some pointers when I see hatred like that...

Disrespectful of them. Again, if you actually try to be a good Christian, you wouldn't have time for that nonsense...

It is more like a Utopian view of Society, where marriage and family are again sacred. That is what I speak in favour of. It's not hatred, but I do get frustrated (and I'm told it shows).

Ragusa: I've seen the one link before. It tells me more than I care to know about that family...

Good. The families have enough to deal with, and shouldn't have to deal with these freaks...

I'm not so sure of that. Sure they aren't going to successfully hurt any one at any of these funerals, or might not succeed in a hate crime against a gay person, but they protray a negative view of Christians that, as BA pointed out, could paint the whole faith negatively. The more negatives that are associated with Christianity, the less credibility we hold in the public eye. It is Christianity that suffers from these people, not the ones they preach against...

I would doubt a claim like that...

Sounds like they need jobs and to actually read the Bible.

For the record, I would bet these "idiots" (no offence Aldeth), would also preach hatred against Mormons as well...

 

I said that as I've seen one or both of them compare homosexuality to paedophilia and gays are going to hell because they're going against 'Gods word'. I considered that a very, very controversial viewpoint. I am for freedom of speech, but I think anybody who comes out with anything controversial or hurtful should have to explain it.

In this video it's just strengthened what I already believed... religion is hateful, intolerant, destructive and unnecessary. It builds walls and created divisions and camps. Very, very few religions can co-exist if you follow their teachings to the letter...

It also shows the massive downsides of freedom of speech.

I feel for the children. I can't believe they're not allowed to think what they want without being brainwashes into this stuff.

 

Barmy, that is not 'a religion', but a sect with a questionable theology to put it charitable.

As for freedom of speech. In Germany 'hate speech' is a crime. We put such people to jail now, after leaving them on the streets in the 1920s and 30s didn't turn out so well.

Correction: I downloaded two sermons from Phelps' site, and listening to them my impression is that the man is insane. It eerily reminded me of Sterling Hayden's stellar performance as General Jack D. Ripper in 'How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb'. The other movie character coming to my mind was preacher Harry Powell from the essential 'The night of the Hunter', played by Robert Mitchum.

What's truly scary is that Phelps' kooky ramblings draw flock.

[ April 03, 2007, 16:45: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Part of the problem with a group like this is that people are paying attention to them. If the media stopped covering their pickets and we stopped discussing them on the internet, eventually they would just fade away.

We can't do anything about them. All we can do is ignore them. Soon Phelps will die and their fire will burn out.

I love they are protesting Canada. They have absolutely no influence up here. Except we watch them on the news and shake our heads.

 

I'm not going to watch the videos because I've seen the group before - And I don't want to be angry for the rest of the day.

Barmy, are you really going to use this disgusting group of misfits to back up your view on religion? That combined with your comparing of Gnarff and NOG to these idiots only shows that you don't know how to draw the bold, blatant line between religion and fanaticism.

 

You said it War Nerve.

The people in the videos are crackpots.

Barmy, I don't know you personally but it seems to me that your hatred of Christianity borders on fanaticism itself. It's strange that those who profess their Christian views like NOG and Gnarf get vilified for them while those who bash Christianity are seldom taken to task. It's quite the double standard. If you ask me it's yet another negative manifestation of rampant political correctness.

 

None taken - and I think you're making a safe bet on their views of Mormons too. It seems like they hate just about everybody who's not just like them. From the wiki site:

First of all, I find it somewhat amusing that they list Canada as one of the things they hate. WTF? What's wrong with Canada? I don't know anyone who has a problem with Canada! And if God hates America so much, then why do you live here? Although since they also hate Canada, and Mexico is filled with Roman Catholics (another group on the hated list), then I guess they'd have to move off the entire continent, which would be inconvenient to say the least.

It's also a crime in the US, and in most western societies. Hate speech is not protected by the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. It's leagl for the KKK to hold a rally, but they can't insite a crowd into lynching a black guy, or even suggest that this should be done. Why, then, can these people say these things? It's because they are considered a religion, and they are professing their faith, as misguided as that faith may be...

 

Well, if we made it on their hate list we must be doing something right.

I imagine that Canada's legalization of same sex marriages would be the main thing that they find objectionable.

 

I don't 'hate' Christianity. I hate to see people hurt and victimized. The Bible teaches some victimization. There are some good sides to religion, but the bad outweigh the good. Christianity teaches that homosexuality is on par with paedophilia. People who follow the religion take that on board, and it's an offensive and insulting teaching. That's what this is about. Christianity teaches that any who do not follow their religion will go to Hell. My bringing Gnarff and NOG into it is only because I've seen them using the same stuff the guys in those videos use to back up their bull ****, so I drew up a comparison. I was just basically saying "Come on guys, show me why you're not the same", I expected maybe answers like "Well, I'm not the same because although the Bible tells me to think 'this' I don't actually find anything wrong with gays and judge a person on his merits, not his sexual orientation".

I was really, really offended by Gnarff's views on homosexuality and told him so. There's no lies in me. It really rubbed me up the wrong way and I've never really seen eye to eye with either of them since then... if I am the only one who was so offended by what he said, I am shocked and appalled by the people of these boards.

Look at Chev for how a true religious person should be like. His standpoint is 'This is what I believe, but meh, you do what you want, it's up to you, do whatever pleases you and makes you happy'. He doesn't preach, he doesn't hate because the Bible tells him to and he doesn't expect other people to believe the same. That's why I respect him and they're the only religious people I do find respect for.

I don't 'hate' anyone really, it just saddens me to see stuff like that. The human race can really be sucky sometimes.

 

Barmy,

I think the criticism that others are leveling at you have more to do with the group you are comparing people like Gnarff and NOG to, and not what you are saying in principle. I think that most people here agree that there really is nothing wrong with being homosexual.

However, this group goes well beyond the religious right in terms of their reactionary nature. These people are well to the right of those that are the furthest to the right on the religious right. It should also be pointed out that this group does limit its hate to gays, but to essentially all groups that are not exactly like them, and apparently and thankfully, no one is exactly like them.

I have never heard NOG or Gnarff say that they hate America, Canada, Roman Catholics, Jews, or any of the other assorted people that make their short list. The fault in your comparison was that in comparing Gnarff and NOG to this group, you seemed to draw the connection that because Gnarff and NOG were like this group in regards to one aspect - i.e., being against homosexuality, that they were like this group in many other regards as well, which I simply do not believe to be true. Heck, Gnarff and NOG are Canadian and American, respectively, and I do not think there are many Canadians and Americans who say they hate Canada or the US.

I have read enough of your posts Barmy to understand what you were talking about, and that you were not saying Gnarff and NOG were just like these people. However, a literal interpretation of your initial post would have gave many people the impression that you were making a sweeping generalization of all Christians, and that's what got other people's dander up. Especially when you said:

By saying that, it makes it sound like you think everyone who is a devout Christian espouses the same tripe that this group spouts off. I know that's not what you were trying to say, but that's how it sounded...