Thief dual to fighter

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I'm just wondering when I should dual a thief to a fighter. I will play this char through Throne of Bhall, but I will dual him certinatly before 2 000 000. (I'll start him in SoA then import to ToB, then dual.) Also, I'm wondering what kit I should use. Either a straight thief or a swashbuckler. Swashbuckler because I don't have to put proficiancy slots into a weapon or style that I won't use. Straight thief because I want backstab. If I go with a straight thief, though, I would have to pump up hide in shadows, which means I'd have to dual later on. I want open locks and f/r traps at 100 100. Then, if I'm a straight thief, put the rest into hide in shadows, (Get it up to 120 because wearing leather armour brings it down 20) and if I'm a swshbuckler, put the rest into set traps. Finally, what weapons whould I use? I am thinking of Celestial fury and Blackrazor, or just C fury and another katana. Two weapons for sure!

Long post, sorry, but I am really having trouble with this.
What lvl should I dual at, what Kit should I start as, and what weapons should I use?

BTW, I'll go through ToB with this char and Edwin.

 

Thiefs rule! Personally I think the thief is more fun to play than a fighter. So I would recommend to dual from fighter to thief to allow extensive development of thieving skills. Since a fighter gets good fighting skills and lots of hitpoints this seems prudent to me to choose him as the first class - the more as a thief as a second class, leveling up faster, allows you regain all your char's combat abilities faster.

I think it is a good idea to dual from fighter to thief at lvl-12, pretty early considering the x-cap and the fighting skills you may like to have. With high dex of 18 your char will be an excellent missile weapon fighter and good in melee as well. And I always felt that the thieving abilities can't be good enough - so with an x-cap of 8 million you'll have plenty of room to become a formidable thief. I also prefer the plain thief to the kits.

btw - ever considered a elven or halfling mc fighter-thief? They are rerally formidable thiefs due to their dex-19 + race-boni and since their fighting skills improve permanently they are really good there too - even pure fighter characters like rangers, barbarians and paladins just have ** weapon proficiencies (though I admit that I love to have a char having ***** - for status and style reasons )

Good fun

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited July 15, 2001).]

 

Yeah, just after I posted that msg I did a search and I began thinking of a berserker dual to a thief. Rage could be awesome with backstabbing. I just hope that fighter dual to thief would be strong enough to be the only fighter; as i mentioned, him and Edwin through ToB would be tough, but certainly fun!!
The only thing holding me back from multiclassing is the XP. I don't want Edwin to be an extremely high level and have my fighter thief sitting in his dust. Though, that could work. I'll test both ways out and see which I like better.
Another question, what weapons for either the multi or the dual?
And, for the dual, when?
I'm thinking at lvl 8 for the dual to a thief from berserker. (That gives two rages a day. Not sure about other things such as attacks per round and such.)

 

For playing BG-1 I'd say dual at lvl-8 or 9 due to the x-cap in SoA. Considering the *HIGH* x-cap in ToB I'd rather dual late - as I said at lvl-12 for the challenges that you might meet there seem in my eyes to justify this investment.

And, seriously, you should consider a multiclass character - they are better than they seem compared to an MC chars punch (inherent strenhgts - especially for halflings ).

 

A multi-class Halfling or Elven Fighter/Thief is indeed a very good class to play with. Both races get 19 dex, which results in better thieving abilities, and some other advantages (more points in stealth, lock picks etc.).
IMO the Halfling is a little better, cause he gets better saving throws and more extra ablility points then the Elf, but he won't get a romance though .

You also might want to consider Single Weapon Style instead of dual weilding. If you put two points in single weapon style you get -2 to AC and you make a critical hit if you roll a 19 or a 20.
Also dual weilding results in a very bad Thac0 for your offhand so you won't hit much with that hand (except when you use the overpowered Crom Faeyr in your offhand, but that doesn't sound much like rollplaying to me).

And if you decide to dualclass you should try the Kensai/Thief, it's a really powerful character.

As for weapon choice I would chose the dagger or short sword for backstabbing (it just doesn't sound very likely to backstab with a slashing weapon without being noticed). Then you can chose a bigger weapon for fighting in the middle of combat. Or you can just use a bow and stay at the back.





[This message has been edited by Silvershade (edited July 15, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Silvershade (edited July 15, 2001).]

 

Hey here is a crazy advice, duel from a fighter into a thief, give all your 5 dots to two handed sword and the one remaining to two-handed weapon style, then duel into a thief. With the XP cap removed the thief will gain (after lvl20 I guess) the ability to use any item...there you have a fighter thief with a Carsomyr +5, even + 6 with the Eye of Tyr.

 

My God Jander Sunstar! That would be insane! Course, you can't backstab with the carsomyr, but hey!
Though I don't think theives can use items restricted to one class, such as the carsomyr, i think it is more like he can use splint mail and helmets and full plate mail and such. Shields too. But you may be right, considering me, you probably are

Ragusa: If I did do an MC, I would probably make it elf and use long sword(s) Hmm... Take the evil greed test and I could get blackrazor, evil me and evil Edwin... Very good. Course, I could just use the equaliser. Wondering if being evil has very much of an effect on the game.

Or maybe a Kensai dual to a thief at lvl 12 or 13 (someone says fighters get an extra half an attack at lvl 13) and have him using Celestial Fury +3 and Belm +2 for 5 attacks a round.
I'l try all these out, and see which one I like the most. Prob the Kensai dual to thief or multi class elven fighter thief with Celestial fury and Blackrazor. And if it is a big one on one battle I could use The Answerer+4.
Jees, this will be a massacre no matter what I do!

Oh and Silvershade, I will be using this guy and Edwin through all of ToB. Don't think a bow wold be too good!! Plus I think there are just too many good weapons out there to use just one of them. This will be my only weapon user, so gotta take as much advantage of the weapons as possible!
Finally, you said if i do a multi class halflig, I wouldn't get the romance! WITH WHO? lol. I'm adventuring with Edwin! C'mon, I'm not gay!

[This message has been edited by Shade (edited July 15, 2001).]

 

I played an M/C halfling fighter/thief. He was a great character, and very strong, especially with a strength enhancing item. You can get the girdle of hill giant strength fairly early, as soon as you scrape together the cash. That makes him quite powerful. Give him a long sword and a shield (there are some great shields in the game) and his AC will be enough for him to wade right into the toughest fight.

My only complaint (if you can call it a complaint) was that at a certain point your 25 thief points per level start to become meaningless. I mean, once I was over 100 points in EVERY category, I started to wish all my XPs were going into fighter instead, and that I could get more than 2 points in a weapon slot.

But then I got ToB. Let me just say, you DO NOT want to miss out on the thief special abilities. They are tremendous. So if you dual, dual from fighter to thief, not the other way around. And if you M/C you can get both fighter and thief special abilities.

I guess I ultimately prefer M/C because I like halflings. I would get sick of playing humans all the time.

 

Halflings can in fact get a romance ... not that this would be relevant for your char teaming with Edwin ... the main difference between an mc elven and halfling fighter thief is:

elf: dex-19 & exceptional strengthplus infravision (nice for a scout) - disadvantage con-17.

halfling: dex-19 while beeing restricted to wis-17 & stre-17 and minimum int-6. Considerably better saving throws and better thieving boni as well.

 

Another difference between the elf and hafling is the elf gets bonuses with long sword and long bow. Still dunno about weapons.

What do you think about the following:

Celestial Fury
Blackrazor
Katana+3
Crom Feayr
The Equaliser
Belm+2 (Simitar that gives an extra attack)

I'm not sure which I should use. Crom Feayr would be good in the offhand, though it is chep. Still... going close to solo is hard....
My two favs up there (apart from Crom Feayr, but that is offhand) for mainhand are Celesial Fury and Blackrazor, but I don't know which to use because they both have amazing combat abilities. C fury has stun and that extra lightning damage, and blackrazor has 15% chance to drain 4 lvls, heal 20hp, haste, or +3 strength (think that's right). Don't know what to use. Any ideas?

 

I think you can better use Blackrazor, because in ToB all enemies will probably have very good saves so they will save against the stun effect often so that makes C'Fury kind of useless. But I'm sure you get a lot of better swords in ToB.

edit> Blackrazor can indeed be used by evil characters only.

[This message has been edited by Silvershade (edited July 16, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Silvershade (edited July 16, 2001).]

 

Hmmm... Yeah, I guess you're right. Blackrazor it is! Is it only useable by evil chars or what? Anyways. I found this in a forum from around April. Boogie says:

"Hmm. crunched some more numbers from an AD&D faq I found on this site and here's what I came up with:
Swashbuckler:
--------------
Max level: 23
615 thief ability points
** max specialization
7 total accumulated proficiency points
60 average base HP
+18 bonus con HP (con 16-18)
78 average total HP
AC Bonus: +1 every 5, for a total of +5 at 23
number of attacks: 1 (never rises)
THAC0: -1 every 2 levels
THAC0 max: -11 obtained at level 22
backstab multiplier: 0
lore: 69

Multiclass Fighter/Thief:
----------------------
Max level: 13/16
440 thief ability points
** max specialization
8 total accumulated proficiency points
51 average base HP
+36 bonus con HP (con 18)
87 average total HP
AC Bonus: none
number of attacks: progresses from 1->1.5->2
THAC0: -1 every fighter level
THAC0 max: -13 obtained at level 13/16
backstab multiplier: 5x
lore: 48

Dual Class Fighter/Thief:
--------------------
Max level: Fighter(9)/Thief(22)
590 thief ability points
***** max specialization
12 total accumulated proficiency points
84 average base HP
+36 bonus con HP (con 18)
120 average total HP
AC Bonus: none
number of attacks: peaks at 1.5
THAC0 max: -15
backstab multiplier: 5x
lore: 66


Conclusion:
It looks like in BG2, a Dual Class Fighter/Thief is far and away the most powerful choice. Reasons:

- Being a pure fighter for those first 9 character levels and then switching over to thief gives your character significantly more HP than a pure thief (swash) or a multiclass.

- A Dual fighter/thief switched over at level 9 can reach thief level 22, just one shy of what a pure thief can reach. This means that the Dual thief can enjoy nearly all the same lore and thief ability benefits as a pure thief.

- A Dual fighter/thief gets a nice 5x backstab multiplier, a swash does not.

- A Dual fighter/thief gets 3/2 attacks per round. A swash is stuck at 1, which can be a drag when using a single weapon. A multiclass can eventually reach 2 attacks per round just before he hits the XP cap.

- A Dual fighter/thief accumulates the most proficiency points over his career, and in addition, can reach mastery+ proficiency. The xp cap prevents a multiclass character from overtaking the dualclass character in this category.

- A dual class fighter/thief gets the best THAC0 at the end of the game. The xp cap prevents a multiclass character from overtaking the dualclass character in this category.

Summary: At the very end of the game, a multiclass fighter/thief will hit level 13/16 and become one of the best offensive fighter/thief combo -- he will enjoy the fighter 13+ benefit of 2 attacks per round as well as the thief 5x backstab multiplier. However, until that point, his offensive capabilities are exactly the same as those of a dualclass fighter/thief. Meanwhile, the dualclass fighter/thief can reach noticably higher thief abilities, higher lore, and have much more HPs. It's no contest there.

As for swash, no backstab & only 1 attack per round makes his offensive abilities pale in comparison. His only real advantage is having a +5 AC bonus over the other two classes by the end of the game. However, that gap could be negated should the fighter/thief (multi or dual) choose to temporarily wear some plate armor for a real rough fight, not to mention the fact that all fighter/thieves can wear helmets at all times.

Dual class fighter-thief all the way, baby!"

And I tend to agree with him. Blackrazor and the equaliser (so I can pump all skill points into long sword) can use blade of roses when buying goods, dragon slayer when killing dragons... yum... lots and lots of guts! Question: How would backstabbing work if I had the Crom Feayr equipped in my offhand?

 

You can't backstab with a blunt weapon, but if you use a weapon a pure thief can use in your main hand you should be able to backstab.

 

Yeah, but I'm thinking maybe it would just ignor that attack because you tried to backstab and you couldn't. Anyways, I think the Equaliser is better to use in my off hand becase then I can get my grand mastery in long sword.
Here's another question.
If I give my fighter grand mastery in long swords, then dual him to a thief, then while I am a thief but before I regain my fighter abilities, I put another * into long sword, what would happen? Also, if it just ignored the point i put into it as a thief, should I put four into it as a fighter and then put one into it as a thief?
I guess what I'm asking is "Do proficiency points spent in the same catogory combine when dual classing?"
Thanks for the help.