POLL: Greatest Debate of All...

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...who would win in a fight: cavemen or astronauts?

The Rules
1. No weapons.
2. The battle takes place on earth.
3. There is no rule 3.

This debate has raged across time, space, and medium for years. Finally, it is up to you; throw in your vote as to the victor in this scenario.

The world needs to know who would win.

Poll Information
This poll contains 2 question(s). 46 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Poll Results: Greatest Debate of All... (46 votes.)

And the winner will be... (Choose 1)
* Cavemen! - 54% (25)
* Astronauts! - 46% (21)

How important is this question? (Choose 1)
* The most important question in human history. - 33% (15)
* Slightly more important than that. - 67% (31)

 

I said astronauts, because they would need to be in great physical condition just to be able to get into space. Also, they would have much better strategies! All the cavemen have going for them is brute strength.

 

In order to answer I would like some further info, such as would the fight be in an enclosed space? and if so how big? and would there be any potential for use of environment? i.e. running away / hiding behind a corner (rock) and insulting from a safe distance until the cavemen got really confused - or bored, then walk up and bop 'em -. My reasoning would be to vote astronaut if they can bring their intelligence to bear in some way, and caveman if it's a type of no-holds barred affair in a "boxing ring." The astro's would be strong spec's to get into space I agree with that reepnorp, but cavemen were probably really strong - almost like a gorilla is compared to an ape, so I think they would easily win a strength fight.

 

The fight is rather abstract, but isn't meant to necessarily be a fistfight until one drops. Think of it as an open, natural setting and the fight as one that isn't necessarily resolved immediately (perhaps the caveman flees and then ambushes the astronaut later, or the astronaut is beaten back but manages to escape and later tricks the caveman into a crude snare or something). Feel free to shape the specifics of the scenario as you see fit.

A few things that a lot of people seem to be assuming that aren't necessarily true. (Though I may be wrong too, and feel free to correct me with some of the evidence I was too lazy to look up.)

1. Astronauts are not puny compared to cavemen -- quite the opposite. A modern male would tower over a caveman, probably almost a foot taller.

2. Uh...more later...maybe.

 

Hi Deviant Mage,
Interesting clarification; now I would like to know more; my next question is what era of earth's history are we in? If we are in the caveman's day and age - then they will be at a huge advantage seen as the fight doesn't have to be over with immediately; the astro's would perhaps weaken over time not being used to the conditions of life, finding food, shelter etc. would be difficult - at least initially. If the encounter is in our modern time the cavemen are just going to be completely freaked.
(I have just edited seen as you stated already it was an open natural setting perhaps it doesn't really matter; one should just assume there is no country pub a mile up the road; presumably there is no road either; pre-historic earth was however densely forested at least in the temperate zones and this would be a shock for astro's to cope with so perhaps my query does have some relevance. Although if it's "open" this would preclude dense forest too I suppose.)

"Astronauts are not puny compared to cavemen -- quite the opposite. A modern male would tower over a caveman, probably almost a foot taller."

I agree the cavemen would be shorter - but I think they would be very strong due to the rigours of their lifestyle, then again they may be weak and decrepid (due to the rigours of their lifestyle). It may depend on what sort of cavemen we are talking about and further clarification may be needed. - I would argue that if they have a diet mainly based on raw meat and hunting boar etc. then they may be ferocious and strong, if they are simple fruitarian, root gathering types they might be pleasant and friendly (and weak in a fight, wondering why the astro's suddenly turned up and starting hitting them - they die with a confused look on their face.)
I am reminded of the Spanish landings in the Americas; they were worshipped as gods initially; much of their success in colonisation was due to the fact that no real organization could be brought to resist such a momentous arrival - so the natives never really had the heart to fight them. If these astros are just going to turn up the cavemen will be so awed they will be at a disadvantage due to shock and a sense of inferiority.
I am becoming more inclined to vote astro.

[ March 16, 2005, 03:49: Message edited by: Ik ]

 

Where on earth did you get this from? I was not aware that this question had raged across time, space, and medium for years. I thought that was Dr Who who did that.

Anyway, an astronaut would clearly win, because all cavemen are just a pile of old bones. Unless of course, we are referring to one of those dead astronauts, in which case, it would probably be a stalemate.

Also, it would depend what sort of fight it was and how victory was determined.

 

Astronaut easily. Simply because he's smarter and in fairly good physical condition. Cavemen might be strong but they're accustomed to using weapons to hunt prey whereas astronauts have been trained in unarmed combat (like all military personel).

 

This arguments was originally brought to my attention through the TV show Angel, where it was a big argument among the various characters (especially between Spike and Angel, who supported cavemen and astronauts respectively). It was on the show after a former producer of the show simply left a message in the writers' meeting room: "Cavemen Vs. Astronauts: Who Would Win? <No Weapons>" (Paraphrased.)

That sparked a big debate between the writers that eventually drew the attention of Joss Whedon, the show's creator, who put it into the show himself.

Hence it raging across mediums: written, verbal, televisiorial...and, uh...internetastic.

Now, as to Ik's points: I'd have to say these are primitive homo sapiens. So they're the same species as the astronauts, not an extinct offshoot. Since they're the same species, I'm inclined to think that physical size is a fair determinant of strength given no evidence to the contrary, since the muscle and bone arrangements are the same. The cavemen aren't disproportionately strong compared to humans like chimps are, because they're human themselves.

As to their lifestyle, I'd say they're the same SOBs who drove the mammoth to extinction -- pack hunters who also gathered fruit and berries.

But the astronauts subduing them through awe and wonder is completely fair, though both groups start the scenario trying to kill the other (which makes wowing them that much more difficult, but not impossible).

The setting has no modern contrivances in it at all -- I think it would simply be too unfair for the fight to occur in New York as opposed to the wilds. I've been envisioning African grasslands myself. I know it gives the cavemen something of a home-field advantage, but their advantage is nothing compared to the one the astronauts would enjoy in Times Square.

 

Deviant - interesting thoughts, now though it seems the astro's are far in the ascendant so the debate may suffer, it seems the astro's are bound to win. Is there much of an argument for cavemen? What did this Spike character - or the staff of the show that leaned that way ~ if you know - have to say to support a caveman victoire?

 

I think the argument to many boils down to instinct versus intellect. Spike thought mankind has been pansified over the years and that the purity of purpose of the caveman would give him the edge.

Hard to understand, though. The two characters were mostly just shouting at and over each other.

So while the astronaut hesitates to crush the skull of another human being, the caveman wouldn't think twice. Given some archealogical evidence, he might be seeing the astronaut as actual prey.

And while the score here is currently 6 - 4 in favor of the 'nauts, globally the current score is 25 - 22 for the cavemen.

 

Well you 4 who have voted caveman - come on and explain yourselves! How dare you lose faith in the heroes of your era. Perhaps they indeed follow the belief popular among the old Greeks for instance that with every generation mankind weakens from a perfection as opposed to the more common modern western view of Progress. Therefore they would be a purer form of human kind; and victory would follow; it's already been stated pretty clearly that the cavers wouldn't have been physically much more strong; so I just don't see where they are gaining all this support. As far as we know; modern man - and particularly highly trained and intelligent types such as astronauts are far more intelligent than the traditional notion of a caveman. How could this advantage be negated to allow a caver victory? Or were they not behind in intelligence at all? - giving the lie to hundreds of years of western scientific orthodoxy.

 

I say that Caveman savagery wins over the civilized restraint of the astronaut...

 

How long does someone stay civilized when someone is trying to kill them? And 'nauts are kind of military and trained in hand to hand fighting as some one said earlier, I will have to edit to put name in - it was abomination - so they are trained killers if need be. As anyone trained in martial arts knows an opponents aggression / momentum can be used against them, a trained fighter could even make a cavers savagery a minus rather than a plus.

 

I'm a caveman person myself - methinks you people are seriously underestimating them. The caveman would no doubt have trained himself in hunting, fighting ect (assuming that he's a successful caveman) - which would, I believe, give him an advantage in a fight on natural, Earth terrain and fighting in general. Sure, the astonaut may have to pass some hefty physical standards - but the caveman has to live by those standards every day to survive, hunt, defend his position in the tribe, whatever.

So hah! Let the slightly more important than the most important debate of human history begin!

 

Would the astronaut be wearin a spacesuit? This would ask the question of armour and possibly a penalty to movment etc.

 

Actually probably a lot more. When I visit castles I have to duck down by quite a bit and I am only 5'10" and these castles are from the 1100's. Some of our ancient sites such as Knowth which are from 5000BC are a hell of a lot shorter!

 

I thought Kirk already decided this one... let's see: saltpeter ... coal ... sulfur ... BANG. Oh wait, he was going up against a CAVELIZARD ASTRONAUT -- maybe it wasn't decided after all.

 

Hah, it's cavemen all the way! Granted, astronauts may be taller - but this is mainly due to sugar! All the coke they have to drink during their extensive training. No one can tell me a diabetically inclined hyperactive socialized soul could beat a meat drinking, blood devouring (eh?) savage who's actions are wired directly to his hypothalamus! Never!

Edit: T2Bruno, isn't this McGuyver you're talking about?

 

Fantastic Darkthrone, best thing all day.

 

The cavemen would probably die because of all the modern germs and viruses that the astronauts would be carrying with them.