What I'd like to see in Baldur's Gate 3.

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If there were BG3, I really would wish that it would include everything from previous parts not only because of continuity, but also to remake them better. 3D seems to be the standard of today, but I could content to 2D as long as it were at least as detailed as in BG2, but with more interaction and functionality. More party banters and function a lâ The Sims 2, of course, and a support for mod-making would be great too.

And, hopefully, a fresh start when BG3 actually begins: somehow a level 50 party does not sounds very interesting... Perhaps the children of the previous protagonist or something like that.

Ah, well; I seriously doubt that this game actually comes around and if it does: it's like one of those "The Sims 2" expansions with no real development.

[ February 05, 2005, 23:11: Message edited by: Wirhe ]

 

Wirhe, no worries, iirc BG3 will be a prequel to the saga, not a sequel.
Anyway, one thing that I really liked about IWD 2 was the way different races/classes/subclasses were integrated in the dialogs. Like for example several characters in targos - and afterwards - looking incredulously when you have a drow in the party, priests trying to spread the word, etc. Even small but nice things like being able to teach the half-elven girl in the barbarian village a trick or two if you are a sorcerer.
Aside from that, I join those going for less political correctness. Our society is far from perfect itself, and one based on feudal relationship is not likely to be much better. Discrimination from NPC's won't ruin the role-play, it may even improve it. Besides, why can't PCs themselves be chauvinists or racists?

 

To be completely honest i agree with most of the comments on this site made by the various heroic individuals but like one person sed (forgive me if someone already typed the reply and ive missed it) who is FRANK WELKER?

i agree 101% and wholeheartedly with 2E rules (ToB style, so its more 2.5E rules ) as 3E suxx big style - and b4 anyone mentions it i own the entire NWN set and IWD2 complete set and i dont like them no matter how hard ive tried to like them i dont. NWN nice gfx - crap ruleset - no party big suxor (was it made to port to consoles For crying out loud).

IWD2 nice party still sucky ruleset

Multiple endings? I liked the endings of BG2 and wouldnt want it changed - its probably cos ive seen them all now.......(yeah i know im sad)

Dunno bout Minsc (he partially annoys me) but Viconia has been in all BG's so she shud definately be in nxt one

no in my opinion the only game ive played and completed over 12 times now (i think, at last count ) modded and Unmodded is BGII SoA + ToB. Full Stop. Period. No other considerations.

Oh BTW youve all gone and upset me now by mentioning a BG3 cos i know it will never happen which P****S ME OFF


Rite already BORED of IWD2 AGAIN!!! im of to design my character AGAIN for another week of BG2....unyielding+5 & Crom hammer on berzerker dwarf hmmmmm (the tried and tested stuff always works, i wonder wot his kill count reaches this time

 

On frank welker: sarevok posted a link, this is the guy who in Baldur's Gate II voices Terminsel/Lord Cor Delryn/Avatar Of Amaunator/Ixilthetocal/Rakshasa/Kirinaldo; and in BG I he voices Elminster/Eltan/Korax/Necromancer/Xzar.
He has been in over 500 films/serials/games, from Fallout to the Jetsons (he voiced Orbitie when 17) and from SW: the clone wars to Sesame Street.

Frankly, this guy seems to be quite something.

Somehow, I seriously doubt it that Viconia will appear in BG III, despite popular demand. Given that in BG I she wasn't on the surface for long, and even in BG II is a bit unclear how things work out on the surface, expecting her to be "under the sun" in BG III, some 2 decades before BG I, is unlikely. Unless the producers can tolerate a big hole in the plot (for which I'd eat them with the clothes on, just to be sure - it's a series that had a terrific plot, after all) it's unlikely that many characters would appear again. What follows is just a personal conjecture on why, though.
The humans in BG I/II are relatively young (keldorn excluded), so they would be children at most in the time of troubles (possible exceptions - Keldorn, Edwin/Xzar maybe, if very young). Besides this:
Khalid met Jaheira relatively soon after his leaving his family, and I think he met her relatively soon before BG I (I'm not sure on that, but I think it was mentioned somewhere)
Jaheira herself... maybe, but since she became a harper soon after leaving the druid grove she was raised in, and her mentor Dermin was still around and active in BG II (and he had to have some experience to be her mentor, after all), I think it's not so likely to see her either. Mind you, it's not very clear-cut here.
Korgan/Kagain - possibly. Their age is undisclosed, and dwarves are long-lived. Yeslick, though, did not travel around until shortly before the iron crisis, I think there was something about a "friend" of his from the iron throne betraying him for something.
Montaron/Alora - maybe... alora seems immature at best and might be just a wee halflingling at the time, monty might be in though...
Kivan, Coran, Xan - possible; well, in Xan's case not that likely (his bio said something about a cloistered life or whatever). Aerie isn't that likely either - before being captured for the cicrus she didn't get around much.
Tiax/Quayle/Jan: any of the 3 could make a hilarious NPC. Especially Tiax (wonder what he'd be like before he got insane or how he got to that point).

 

Viconia had been long on the surface, since she must have escaped either some time before ToT, or shortly afterwards, as Lloth would have lost her power then, so she would be unable to seek her -- certainly not with a handmaiden and a yochlol.

Anyway, I would prefer it if she wasn't in the prequel (unless as still in the Drow city she was raised in -- Menzoberranzan?), but if she was, let's hope the PC is not charname's ancestor, or you'd be comitting incest with your own grandmother in BG2...

And that, folks, is the main reason for not including BG1/2 NPCs in BG3 -- you know too much about them. BG1 wasn't as revealing, so you could have got the NPCs and, after all, you were the same character. Playing with BG1/2 NPCs in BG3 would have meant prescience and precognition of them, which would be acceptable (or even expected) with the same charname, but not if BG3's PC is somebody entirely different.

 

I think they should bring another guy like Abazagal in (exept more powerful) and use him as the boss. They should also have an alternite ending (like BG2 Watchers Keep).

 

How was watchers keep an alternate ending?

I'd want a Time of Troubles them... something to do with Gorion & Elminster n' stuff.

 

If it was in the time of troubles, it might be really neat to meet any of the three who later became gods: Midnight, Cyric, or Kelemvor, by the way.

 

How about putting Taluntain in as one of the Flaming Fist?

 

2D vs 3D?
I would not at mind the same system as in BG2; 2D with some 3D, but it does very much look lite we will indeed se BG3 in totaly 3D. Ok, that is ok as long as gameplay wont suffer and they keep the top down perspective. I DO NOT want any first person wiev, nor any "over the shoulder" view. And I do really want to be able to move the screen without moving the characters, if you know what I mean.


Rules

I do not know about DnD 3.5 since I never played it, but what I have heard seems allright.


Appearence and voice

Some more ways to change your look, hairstyle, weight, etc. Also more sounds, that can't be to hard to fix? The protagonist only have like 20 different sounds...maybe less. And those are short anyway. In BG1 there was like three to chose from, and two of them was sounding totaly crazy so you had to go with the same voice every single time you played the game. BG2 was a little better.

NPCs

Very important. Put very much time on these, they have to feel alive. I do prefer 12 great NPCs over 30 not-so-great NPC:s. A LOT of interaction and dialogue between you and the NPCs, between the NPCs and between the world and the NPCs. Your actions should affect how the NPCs react to you, and you should be able to have atleast one romance per gender.

Do not recycle NPCs from the BG-series. One, or maybe to is OK and might even be intresting, but not more. I want some fresh new characters.

You should also be able to controll all NPC:s, and you should be able to have atleast four in the party at the same time. If there is some really large and important battle, you could be able to gather most of them to strike at the enemy, though you wont controll all of them...Like when you gathered the Drizzt party, the Shadow thieves and the paladins in the assault on Bodhi's lair.

Races and classes

Do not care so much really. The races that exist are sufficient, and I do not feel any great need for sub-races either. But I do think that your race should have a greater effect on your suroundings. Not only should some quests (or maybe even some NPC) only be available to some races, but general all day dialogue should also be somewhat different at times.

I do not feel the need of any more classes either, but It would be interesting with some prestige classes that should be hard to achieve. Maybe you discover some old temple in the mountains and after quests and hard training you could, if you are for example cleric and have achieved the right prerequesits (for example having the right alignment, whatever), have the choice to be trained to a special prestige class. And as with the races above, and even more so here, your class should have a greater effect in the game. And if you are a Paladin for example, you should be organized in a order and you must follow their rules. If discovered doing otherwise, you should be cast out and become a fallen paladin, and some people on the streets should know about it and say like "eh...you are that cast out paladin are'nt ya? Nah, I do not trust you".


Story

A good story is VERY important, and even more important is that the story is being well told.
The main campaign should be large, many hours of game play. But there should also be very much quests and areas that are not connected to the main story at all, or atleast not much.

Generally well written story, characters, bad guy and dialogue are crucial. I want some nice twists to, (like in Kotor) even though their effect wont be as great in replay. Not to great twists though.

You should not fight the last boss before the last battle.


Music & Sound

Well, it has been great in all BG-games and maybe even greater in IWD. It should stay that way, a good score is very important. BG2 had quite a few great voice actors/actresses. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0224637/fullcredits

General gameplay

You should start at level 1, and end maybe at lvl 20. You should not get any über +4 weapons right at the start. You should be very happy for your first +1 sword.

Around two cities not to much smaller than Baldur's Gate, and some towns. I also accually liked to walk around in somewhat empty mountains and forests as in BG1...I like the fact that you could wander around for hours, just killing some gnolls and maybe a party of bandits, maybe finding some minor quest...and than stumble across something more interesting. I would very much like to find some secret dungeon or some town just by walking around for a long time...Towns and dungeons that you would have no chanse to find if you had not chosen to go exploring in the wilderness. I like "hard-to-find secrets" in general...stuff that you might stumble across on pure coincedence. Areas that you have to do a long series of quests (that do not even need to be connected) to be able to travel to. Items in a room only reached by unlocking a door in some peasants cellar, with a key found on the other side of the world. Like that secret mindflayer place in the sewers, or the Twisted Rune secret room, or the pantaloon mystery. It should be awarding to be a hard core BG-gamer.

And if you save a town...it should have a greater affect on the people. Not just a mayor saying "thanks for saving our town!" and some peasants saying "it was good what you did", etc. And bad deeds should also have a greater effect, atleast then witnesses are present.

And EVERYTHING should not be centered on me. I can't solve every damn problem in the world. There have to be others! And I should not either be able to effect every great event in the world. There should be stuff that even I cant prevent, or even I are not aware of in time. Like if Iam in a town...and I decide to go out on a quest instead of sleeping in the inn. When I return the town has been raided by orges, or an army, whatever and everyone is dead, and I loose alot of potential quests (even the one I was out to solve...the guy who gave me the quest was hanged on the town square), etc. Though I might also gain one quest or two that would not have been possible if I should have slept at the Inn and thus being present at the invasion which I might have been able to stop.

And must problems should be able to solve without any battle at all. Instead of fighting your way through the castle to get to the throne room, you could if you are a thief, climb the walls, infiltrate the guards, pick the locks, etc. Or if you are a mage...cast dimension door.
And you should gain experience for completing a certain task, no matter if you do it by slaughtering all enemies or by sneaking around them, or posioning them to sleep.


Some large battle might be cool to...You can be like a general or something, in a seige. And the only outcomes should not be victory or your death...You should be able to loose without dying. You could be forced to retreat with your army (maybe bringing the seige to your castle, if you are beseiging an enemy castle), or be captured to be ransomed out, our forced to spill military secrets.

You should also be able to play the game with other characters than your main character, but only temporary. For example if your main character were captured in the battle, the rest of your party might try to save him. Or if they are dead or unable, your side might have some elite thief, or otherwise contact some thief-NPC that you never choose to have in your party, that you could play and save your main character with.

And if you walk around in plate mail all day, you should stink, get some wounds and get tired faster. When walking around in peacefull towns, the characters might put on som casual clothes, etc. And when visiting nicer place, like the royal palace the girls should have pink dresses!

And your clothes should reflect in dialogue.
"What a beautiful dress m'lady!", "Ouch! You stink! How can you walk around in that piece of junk all day?" Etc.

AI

Dumb orcs and animals might not realize that Iam taking them out one by one, but smart enemies should understand that they are under attack and come running after me if they see their companion being hit by arrows from the distance. And if I take out some guard while infiltrating a castle, the other guards might dubble the security and organize a search party, whatever. Real smart enemies should even be able to fool me...pretend that they've got "morale failure running" so I follow them and BOOM! Iam in an ambush. Or try to seperate my NPC's to take them out one by one. Etc. Tactics should matter...maybe even to that extent that if you stand on a platau you get advantages, and if the enemy is flanked they might panic, etc.

Spells

Do not feel any need for much more spells, but some would great.


Dialogue

You should have additional dialogue options if you have for example certain skills, like:

Persuade
Wisdom (if you have high wisdom, new dialogue might present itself, cause you understand stuff better)
Intelligens (same here)
Flirt (charisma)
Intimidate
[Skill] (if somebody is talking about potions, and you have a great skill in alchemy, you should be able to have a dialogue about it, or point out that he is a stupid idiot not realizing that you need the X-ingridient to make the Y-potions, etc.
And another example, if you have a great skill in knowing stuff about weapons, you should be able to know if that merchant is trying to fool you, etc.

And if you are very stupid, you should have a more clumsy dialogue and vice versa. In some games a really intelligent character can ask so plain stupid questions and really stupid characters can talk like if they were some prefessor in retorics.

And attributes like intelligens should have more uses...it is totally useless in BG if you aint a mage.


And you should be able to talk to more enemies...most start red and instantly attacks you. Most confrontations should be able to avoid in some way if you have the right talents, money, whatever. And even some fool hobgoblins should not be so stupid that they attack an über lvl 15 party that have allready slaughtered half the dungeon, they should rather say "**** the boss and his orders, Iam out of here!".

You might even find those "evil" bandits, or those ogres sympathetic and nice people, and that their cause is really just and fair. When you get to know them, most people have their nice sides. Even monsters.


Quests

Why does everybody trusts you and spill out all their secrets to you? And why do people give important quests to total strangers just because they look like adventures? And who really expects a random adventurer to go out to the forest and bring back some old magic boot for 50 gp...
And why do you do it?

I want good quest motivations!

And all quests does not have to be epic. Some might just be to sneak into the prison and free a prisoner without killing anyone.


Reputation and alignment

You should be able to play real evil, and the game should look real different if you do that. Not a slightly different end movie, but the entire game should be different in many aspects. You might even join with the end boss...or his organisation, whatever.

And if you are like a James Bond arch-nemesis you should be the one that everyone fears, and you should be the one that adventures seek to destroy.
You should even be able to start up some evil academy training evil soldiers to attack the goody goody town. This might be to much to ask though.

But reputation should matter...not just in the shops. And if you save a city because a little girl asked you so, you should be known and well liked...get new contacts with important people (unlocking new quests for you), and new enemies (locking quests from you).

And alignment should of cource change if you act in a specific way. Even if you choosed Lawful Good when you created your character, you should be able to move towards chaotic if you constantly shows disrespect to authorities and the law, for example.

Misc

More books! I loved reading the books! And more books that might have connections to the story. Maybe even some dude will write the story of your character (or some other character you have played in other Faerun-games). And there might be some book that mentions the last boss (why is he/she always evil? Can't their be a neutral boss? That is not evil, but just have another view on things?), or maybe some town, some weapon, etc. Maybe the book even gives a lead on a town...for example mentions a secret passage under the rug in a house in some town, leading to some ancient grave? Something that you could never find if you haven't read just that book.

Btw...where does everybody work? Most should work on farms, but those in the city...well, there is quite a lot merchants but I found few other work place...People can not walk around in the city all day, it is far more likely that they should work.
And when they are out in the town, they should not just stand still, but walk around and talk to people.

Organisations

More organisations! All kinds, not just bad and evil...Even political organisations. Maybe some underground anarchist-group that plans to hang the king, exile the nobles and give the power to the people, or something. All kinds of polital groups, some militant some not. And other groups as well, different mage groups, some evil organisations, some different churches, thieves, whatever. You might support the king, and rally the church to your cause and eliminate the anarchist threat, or help the anarchists mobilize the people and infiltrate the castle, whatever.

There should also be philosophers wanting to win the peoples mind, ambitions politicians stuggling for power within the senate, cults preaching mass suicide, half-orcs protesting against half-orc discrimination...Maybe even some Anti-racist action Half-Orcs that fights racist elfs. And some merchant organisations, fighting for free trade and against the king and the mercantile economics of the land. Etc.

[ February 21, 2005, 17:07: Message edited by: Turandil ]

 

To re-state something previously stated, but after reading Turandil's great list I had to add it again. Have more race-specific dialogues, quests etc. Make dwarfs be rude and angry towards elves and visa versa. Make races react realistically to each other, and quests be limited to certain races for example (except if you saved their town or something like that). Make certain races more trusting of their own kind and less trusting of others depending on which. And make shops give discounts depending on race or offer special items and such. Just make interacial interactions realistic and make a difference, and in that aspect also do the same for similar classes like paladins trusting fellow paladins (which will make a HUGE difference on replayibility).

 

Hehehehe, these seem enough recommendations for a fairly successful MMORPG already
Yeah, one more thing on evil and neutral play: make it alluring, and realistic. In BG II for the most part even without being particularly good - say, with actions perfectly befitting a TN alignment, you could get a reputation of 17+ by just not being an arshole. An evil party need not act in a way to be despised like rabid dogs, but should be able to earn fear and even some respect. Moreover, there should be a serious opportunity for neutral roleplaying - after all, those 3 alignments (CN.TN and LN) are there fore a reason! I like being a do-gooder as much as the next guy (depending on who the next guy is, maybe even more) but some variability is in order.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but some random encounters and, if possible low- to medium- power random loot can be fun. Not every +1 weapon need have a volume of history - after all, you will be making it famous, not the other way around.

 

@ Turandil: Damn... that'd be one awesome game...

@ The Shaman: Agreed, something along the lines of the "Virtue" system would be a good inclusion. After all, as BG1 demonstrates admirably, you can be respected and admired - even elected Grand Duke of Baldur's Gate - while being a devious, murdering, vicious, evil bastard (in every sense of the word, too). Your actions may have you well-regarded, but you may still possess all the morality of a sewer rat.

An item that should be in BG3 is a missile weapon (probably a light crossbow) with a higher rate of fire, the history of which should include a previous owner's or the maker's comment of "I'll make you famous!" Would be a real comic moment for those who get the reference.

 

More subraces. Be a Drow or a Gray Dwarf.

Not necessarily more classes but more feats and skills that give the same effect as 'kits'.

More consequences from ability scores (e.g. high intelligence or dexterity in a fighter gives access to more complex fighting moves)

Strength enhancing items add +1 to strength rather than setting at a specific level.

More multiclassing options.

 

Many people said that already, but still it's very important: 2D, NOT 3D and NOT "over the shoulder" view.

I have Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale on my computer table, and I never finished it. I never played it for more than 15 minutes, I couldn't stand it. I wasted my money on it.

I know many people like 3D rules, but as it is going to be Baldur's gate 3, not Neverwinter Nights 3, I'd like it to look familiar.

 

I don't want purely 'birds-eye-view' yes it gives a D&D feel and its good for parties, but I'd prefer to be able to alternate between the two. I find with with over the shoulder I can more fully emerse myself and play the roll of my character (most of the time is a halfling) who walks around a tavern looking up at everyone. I want it so you can switch from "a bird's-eye view" to "over the shoulder" to "first person" with each view having its options, and controls (ie the bird's eye view you can move the "camera" around to see what you want) and that way everyone's happy and as each view has its purpose, you can't lose

 

Wishlist for BG3
1. NO 3 or 3.5 edition rules. They'll ruin the game, totally I must add. The 3rd edition with "everyone has the chance to become a mage" already ruined the IWD series. I hate it when in the end all your characters are longsword wielding, plate armor wearing mage/clerics.
2. A greater game world with freedom to explore it. Cities of races other than human would be really nice to wisit.
3. No frozen wastelands (I started hating the Icewind Dale (not the game but the region) after NWN). Jungle or desert would be really nice. (And it would make more sense too, it's kinda dumb to see a panther (an animal that really likes hot weather regions, even by MM) in an ice cave.
4. More weapons. I mean there were weapon classes that were totally useless (clubs for instance). Everyone should have even chance to find a good weapon, not just fighters.
5. NO MORE DEMI-GODS. This should be a completely new plotline.
6. Spells that are not totally combat oriented (95% of the spells were meant to boost up your characters or damage oponent) - the spells are more than that. For instance, golem creation or magical weapon forging would be really nice.
7. NO MORE GOBLINS AND ORCS. I hate these races. Not because of what they are, but because if you see a fantasy RPG you'll be fighting goblins and orcs most of the time. Look at the MM there are so many more interesting sentinent and common monsters, why do goblinoids get all the glory? And no skeletons and zombies for the same reason.
8. More puzzles - the dialogue riddles were really nice, but they were too few.
9. More choices in quests (like when told to look into a slave uprising you could kill the slaves or the slavers) etc.
10. NO MORE RANGERS WITH HAMSTERS. It was an old joke in the second part already.
11. NPCs with normal stats. A rogue with low Dex or a mage with low Int isn't really what a player needs. And they weren't even plot characters, they were just waste of time.
12. Explenation and characterisation of every character or character type you meet in game, like it was in Planescape Torment.
13. More roleplaying in ways you can solve the quest (after all you are the one who gets it, your companions just help you to fulfill it). Basically in BG every character class had to do all the game in the fighter way.
14. NO 3d first person view. Cause every game made in it becomes a fantasy DOOM or a total hack'n'slash.

 

Based on that list, it sounds like you hate the Baldur's Gate series.

 

And once all these things are actually put into the game, you discover that you have to go out and buy a $7,000 computer just to run the bloody thing.

So, the game should follow AD&D rules and allow the player to play races that the player cannot according to those rules. Am I missing something?

Can you think of a good way to control this in a real-time, first-person environment because I sure can't? I also think that this number is way too high.

Why? What the hell is unexcusable about strong women?

Creating random stories is not possible in any game that doesn't have a human storyteller.

That one I agree with as well.

Agreed.

No, just because of the stupidly high system requirements that I mentioned earlier.

I can agree with that one. An NWN-like system works fine for me, though. I do not like the way Morrowind or Diablo handles combat.

I think that there should be a lot of nonmandatory encounters in the game, but I don't have a problem with goblins having quest/magic items ("Caravan robbed by goblins").

That's the way D&D does it. There has to be a limit though, do to limitations of hardware.

I'd like to see that as well. There has to be a somewhat limited number of race/class combinations for that to work, however.

It's already in development.

Why?

Agreed.

Not sure I'd want the "hard to find" places taken to that extreme, but a couple of dungeons in out of the way places would be neat especially if nobody ever sends you there.

What about time limits to quests?

I disagree. It's an RPG, hence, you're the main character not the party.

 

If Baldur's Gate 3 is going to be a prequel, I only want 3 things:
1) better random number generation. My Rogue consistently averages 3 point of damage per die on sneak attacks. It should be 3.5 per die.
2) sneak attacks should be sneak attacks, NOT BACKSTAB. You should be able to pull it off if you and another party member are flanking an opponent.
3) For God's Sakes, please please please make sure that the spells do what they're supposed to do. Chain Lightning should affect at least 13 opponents when you're 12th level, not 1 opponent and maybe a second one if you happen to have some "left-over" damage.

I like the infinity engine, I don't like Neverwinter Nights. I also hope that they'll put the Arcane Trickster prestige class in. By the way, second edition sucks on things that I can't write about here. Stick with third edition.