Talk for talking (Sorcerer-Wizard)

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First, I think that is an irrationnal question and that will cause irrationnal answers but let's talk for pleasure.

1: Why a mage have to prepare his spells every day and the sorcerer not?

2: Why a sorcerer cannot scribe scroll and learn more magic?

3: Why Bards in the recent D&D games are now consider as a sorcerer? (What cause this change)

I also remember on old game that the Clerics work like the sorcerer. I think it was the fantastic pool of radiance. lol

 

No one has said anything yet...

The first two I'll talk about together. The way I think about mages and sorcerers is the mage carries around a spellbook and the sorcerer does not. The mage can add spells to his spellbook, and at the end of the day, he sits down and studies it to memorize spells for the next day. (Kinda like how you study in school for a test the night before, and then forget everything after the test. Except you have to keep adding notes on what you learned that day, and the mage has a test every day.) The sorcerer does not have a spellbook to write everything down. So instead he chooses a small selection of spells and memorizes those by heart so that he can cast them at will. At the end of the day, he too is fatigued and must rest to recuperate spells.

I think you remember wrong about clerics in the old Pool of Radiance. They memorized spells the same way as mages. Like in BG they gain access to all priest spells (no scroll scribing) but had limited spell slots.

 

Mages are very intelligent individuals who have studied the arcane arts for a large part of their lives. Their command over magic stems from this intense study.
Since this mastery over the arcane has resulted from the efforts of many generations, their collected works are available for the apprentice mage to learn from. When these apprentices have reached a certain command over arcane magic and have proven their skill to the satisfaction of the elder mages, they are allowed to prepare their own spell books from the tomes available.
To remember all the nuances of spell casting need intense concentration and each spell demands great resources, due to which when a mage casts a spell from his memory it compells him to relearn it before casting it again.
Notice how when a spell is cast from a scroll the power of the spell burns away the letters on the scroll.

Sorcerers on the other hand are completely different from mages. No one really knows how a sorcerer learns or casts his spells. Unlike mages who concentrate on the exact words and the tone of each arcane word, sorcerers simply seem to draw on the power of arcane forces to cast spells.
These guys have never really leant their skills at any school. As such they are unable to learn in the exacting confines of written magics.
When a sorcerer casts his spells he starts to become fatigued and after casting a number of spells has to sleep off the effects of spell casting.

Bards are also mystical charecters of very high charisma (similar to sorcerers). Since a bard performs on various levels, his understanding of the magical arts is mediocre at best. Also his travels hardly are condusive to the intense studies of arcane arts which mages follow.

In BG II Bards, Sorcerers and Wizards all had intelligence as their casting caspasity. However from their definition both Bards and Sorcerers must be of similar skills, different from mages.
Hence in 3E, Bards and Sorcerers eventually got Charisma as their prime casting attribute.

 

You are very cool to read, thanks. I add this to my virtual knowledge.

But if I make me lawer's devil (french expression to search light contreversy:"l'avocat du diable")

Why a person so intelligent couln't pass the test 2 day after with adittionnals questions?

The version for the sorcerer and the bard3rdE seem rationnal in the context but the intelligent mages seem to have some lost chain.

Is there a way to play BG2 with 3rdE?

 

@Kilmax: It's "devil's advocate"

The mod IceWind Gate at www.weidu.org converts the BG2 rules into 3E. Some things don't quite make it, but it's as close to your wish as you'll ever get.

 

I think "Devil's Advocate" is the term you are looking for.

Casting an arcane spell does not mean just muttering a few words.
For a mage to cast a spell correctly he must say all the words with the correct pronunciation, emphasis, speed and accent.
A few spells also contain a visual component. The mage might have to draw a virtual symbol in the air in front of him to concentrate the arcane energy.

It is important for the wizard to perform the above operations correctly.
If he fails early on he is unable to draw any arcane energy, leading to spell failure.
If he makes any mistake during the later part of the spell casting process the arcane energies concentrated around him may run amok, giving unexpected results.
Unlike what we see in the games where a mage has to just try to recast a spell from a safer distance when hit during spellcasting, in the stories it seems that one might actually have to run for cover.

One thing not implemented in CRPGs is that wizards are also knowledgeble in herb lore. All the potions that you see are also made by wizards, even your potion of healing.

Since casting arcane spells is such a dangerous business, you wont be allowed to actually cast a spell until after a few exams. Classes are generally held in an area covered with anti-magic spells.

Like I wrote earlier sorcerers use the more symolic manner of casting spells. Thus they dont bother about the nuances of the spell words. They just know what the correct pronunciation is.

To read more about arcane casting you should read the 'DragonLance' books.

There is a mod - IceWind Gate - which brings 3E rules into BG II. However its been in construction for a long while. There still seem to be a lot of bugs. Only the Beta has yet been released.
You could search the boards for more information.

 

As I understand it, mages can only learn a particular number of spells per day, because every time they study, the magical energies that activates each spell are also stored in their memory. When a spell is cast, that magical trigger is removed from the mage's memory. Even if the mage knew how to cast the spell, s/he still needs to study the spell again in order to recover that energy. Even when a mage is learning the same spell two times or more, those same spells are considered different, as the mage needs to store the magical energy per each spell too.

Sorcerers, on the other hand, learn how to cast spells by experience and observation (and a bit of improvisation), and use their own magical energy to fuel the spell, not the magical energy of the spell itself.

Because of this, a sorcerer can cast a spell as many times as he has energy to cast that spell type or level, whereas a mage can only cast a spell as many times as he has prepared it. There is a very good description of this in the BG2 user guide, but I prefer mine

 

The part that has always bugged me about mages is that, if they have just cast a particular spell, it seems to me that the spell would still be fresh in their mind so that they should be able to cast it again. And the fatigue answer seems inadequate given that they are not too tired to cast other spells.

Having said that, Colthrun's answer seems to be reasonable. In effect, spell memorization doesn't work in they way we are used to for other kinds of memorization, but rather it is more just a transfer of magical energies which is expanded when cast. The mage doesn't actually "know" the spell, but merely has access to it through a spellbook or scroll.

Have I got it right?

 

I like to think that the mage learns how to partition or segment his/her mind, in order to store pure magic power. The more powerful a mage becomes, the more segmented his/her mind can be, and thus, more spells can be memorised.

When a mage learns a spell, the mage learns the components, the gestures and the words of the spell. When a mage memorises the spell, it charges his/her brain with the correct energy to release the spell effect. Perhaps "memorising" a spell should be called "store" or "charge" a spell instead.

If a mage's brain was a gun, the spells would be the bullets. You can use different types of bullets, but each one will always take one slot in that gun's clip.

 

In SoA a sorcerer have no casting stats, you could give him minimum stats in everything and he would be just a good a caster as one who have 25 in everything. This is an additional thing which makes sorcerers a tad overpowered, instead of having a main stat draining statpoints you can boost dex, con and strength for some ac, hitpoints and carrying capacity.

 

^ Is that changed in ToB?

 

Nope theres the same "problem" in ToB...But lets face it, the monk classe that are from the 3rd Edition rules are overpowered, its not just the sorcerer, but the monk is just as overpowered if not more...